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Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1148
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re: That old prophet


Is the body of Christ going to be damaged by it's true members welcoming into it's midst a man whom is claiming Christ and is claiming his saving grace and is seeking God and his word?

Well what if he's false? Well, what if he's a liar? Well, what if he's going to embarrass us?

All of those same questions can equally be put to you as well. What if you get off on false doctrine? What if you end up being a lair to us? What if you end up embarrassing the believers who came along side to help you?

Do you think Jesus had such a skeptical attitude about his first 12? He even knew one to be a betrayer and yet took him in.

God's word teaches us to love one another, to discern and judge. But, while we discern are you going to reach out and encourage or like the old prophet in Kings go out to the young prophet and finally lie...in an attempt to lower him to the same non-miraculous, non-God inspired, non-God lead life that he was leading? The young prophet died as a result of listening to the old man cast a wet-blanket of lies.

This kind of post should never have to be written, but it's obvious the skepticism of some of you extends beyond your faith in God to believe God to save a man.
So what if I am dead wrong? Scripture teaches I have not broken the law of God to love and aid someone seeking the kingdom. But what can be said about those who value their personal reputation and their doctrines more than their brother?
Some might say..."well I don't believe him to be my brother"
is he not at least your neighbor? So God commended the Samaritan can God commend you?
Well, he's proven he's a worldly man; so, where else do we obtain our converts?

The love of God suffers...because it believes, it endures because it hopes. When you obviously put forth the hand of skepticism instead of belief, you cannot be said to be putting forth the hand of love.

Are we ashamed of a man who is a billionaire? Are we intimidated of a man who has great worldly influence? Are we quicker to doubt a man with those attainments than a man who is poor and we are the richer and have more influence?

Sizing up Kanye with a doctrinal ruler is silly if not immaturish on our end. Weighing him on holiness scales as your self and your experience as the counter balance is a false balance...how could it be otherwise? Are you the true form God is making Kanye into?

Our only God and true way of dealing with men...all men rich or poor great or small is in the expression of love and discipleship.
Since this forum is not his go-to discipleship source our discipleship is not in-play. All we have left is to offer up prayers and encouragement that God's hand is not short, nor heavy nor weak in saving anyone.
Jesus is able to bear-up Kanye and keep him.
Our love and willingness to see his success is a mark of Christ-likeness in us. If we judge him and cast him aside are we not actually judging God and casting God's power and ways aside?

Be faithful and hopeful toward all new converts...skepticism and negativity are attributes of the devil.
We don't need to be afraid of our new converts.


_________________
Marvin

 2019/11/11 9:41Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2039
Whittier CA USA

 Re: Good Fight Ministries on Kanye West

Is an explanation really needed here about why we should be careful not to endorse and support the prosperity gospel message?

I know one can be saved and be deceived by the prosperity gospel, I know from personal experience. But after knowing the depths of that perverted and deceptive message I cannot in good conscience support anyone who is caught up in it and promoting it. Sorry, I fear God too much to compromise like that.


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Oracio

 2019/11/11 10:58Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3250
Texas

 Re:

The "REAL" title of this thread should have been "The Judgement Of The Good Fight Ministries On Kanye West". Yep! now that would be more appropriate.


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Mr. Bill

 2019/11/11 11:06Profile
Solomon101
Member



Joined: 2008/4/1
Posts: 530
America's Heartand

 Re:

TRUE WORSHIP EXPOSES THE RELIGIOUS SPIRIT

Kanye: Jesus is King
Christians: Do you know what he has done? Do you know who his wife is?

Prostitute: Pours perfume on the feet of Jesus.
Pharisees: Do you know what she has done? Do you know who she has slept with?

Nothing new under the sun.

 2019/11/11 15:01Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2039
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

I do acknowledge that some “discernment” ministries (including Good Fight) have gone overboard in judging Kanye based on his past sinful behavior. I do think some of it is justifiable in terms of exercising caution, but some isn’t.

This sort of reminds me of when Justin Bieber came out and said he was a Christian and started going to church and was baptized, about 5 years ago. At the time, at first it also seemed encouraging to me. But then I saw that he continued to promote the same debauchery as before and there was no evidence of a true conversion.
Some Christians continued to defend Bieber’s profession of faith and said that he’s still young and that he needs room to grow in his walk. Well, about 5 years later there is still no evidence that he had a genuine encounter with the living Christ.

Some years ago, Kirk Franklin joined Kanye West at one of West’s demonic concerts. Franklin tried to defend his actions and said that Kanye was his brother in Christ.

The standard for Christianity in America has been lowered so much that we allow for professing Christians to behave just like the world. We don’t see any real problem with there being no difference between an atheist and a professing Christian in terms of their lifestyle. Has God’s hand gotten so weak that he cannot radically transform His people anymore?

Granted, Kanye West seems to display more positive signs than Bieber did. But again, from all the recent information I’ve gathered (both pros and cons), I believe it’s reasonable to be skeptical at this present time. He’s definitely caught up in, influenced by and preaches a prosperity gospel message, as well as inclusivism of false religions and cults, among other things.

When Zacchaeus was converted, he said, “Look, Lord, I give half of my goods to the poor; and if I have taken anything from anyone by false accusation, I restore fourfold.” And Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because he also is a son of Abraham; 10 for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.”(Luke 19:8-10)

Also notice how the Ephesians responded when they were converted,

“Also, many of those who had practiced magic brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted up the value of them, and it totaled fifty thousand pieces of silver. 20 So the word of the Lord grew mightily and prevailed.” (Acts 19:19)

When I see Kanye removing his demonic music from his YouTube channel, when I hear him preaching against the satanic movement he promoted for many years, when he renounces the prosperity gospel (which even Benny Hinn did recently), when he stops talking about how much of a genius he is and begins to acknowledge his sinfulness before a holy God, as opposed to saying he has nothing from his past to be ashamed of, come talk to me.

Just this past Saturday he was onstage with this foul and perverted rapper named Travis Scott at a wicked concert in Houston. Kanye sang a rap song from one of his old demonic albums there.


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Oracio

 2019/11/11 15:58Profile
CofG
Member



Joined: 2017/2/12
Posts: 431
Cambodia

 Re:

Brothers and Sisters,

When Paul was converted, it was a dramatic and very sudden turnaround and one sure to be noticed inside the faith and out. His conversion was deep and 100% AND he was immediately appointed by Jesus to begin a work on His behalf. This is critical to understand. Paul was converted for sure, but it was Jesus that appointed Paul for the work he was to undertake.

When Paul was converted, there was great concern among the Apostles and other disciples about whether his conversion was real. There is no criticism by the Spirit toward those who were concerned, suspicious and cautious. (Acts 9) They were concerned for a lot of reasons least of which being what he might do to the other disciples if he wasn't real. Barnabus brought him to the others and vouchsafed for him and then they interviewed Paul.

After Paul was interviewed, he went to the desert areas and was taught directly by the Lord all the doctrine he would need to do the work the Lord had specifically called and appointed him to do.

Subsequently, Paul himself felt compelled to share with the Apostles the Gospel he was proclaiming in order to insure he was preaching the right Gospel.

Paul himself was very cautious of even his own understanding.

I'm pretty certain the Holy Spirit approved of the way Paul's conversion confirmation, training and maturation for his platform with the Jews and his work with Gentiles, and his being confirmed by his fellow ministers in the faith was accomplished. Perhaps the Holy Spirit was in charge of all that and not just tolerant of it.

I'm not saying that Kanye has to go through all that. But there are principles and wisdom that should be applied when there is a very public conversion and then a far reaching ministry that is undertaken in a hurry.

Seems to me it is healthy and wise to have Kanye or anyone like him go through a quiet and out of the fray training and maturing process to insure that he is called to and equipped for such a high profile and impacting ministry. Paul's case is the best example of that wisdom.









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Robert

 2019/11/11 16:39Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1148
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:


Hi Oracio:

We've both been down the road of believing someone has believed and repented only to find out they abandoned their faith.
We know from the parable of the sower there will be 3 kinds of professors who bring forth no good fruit.

My concern is to offer grace and truth to Kanye, to offer fellowship and godly discipleship. Some who are available to meet with Kanye are doing so.

Hazarding our reputations and hearts is part of what it means to be available to God to seek and save the lost.

We wont be ashamed of being loving or giving or hopeful for someone whom we seek to help walk in the light. Some would make us ashamed because they have already judged Kanye as false before the time and will judge us to looking 'duped' if things don't go as we hoped.

I hope to articulate this without being hypocritical or compromising, but our holiness is not diminished because our love is exploited or seemingly wasted by those who later deny the faith. I am not condoning satanic music because I seek to help disciple a person who at one time lived a life of propagating it. Jesus was not less holy because he received a foot washing from a prostitute.
Our associations with the wicked do not poison the heart, it's poisoned from within not from without.

I share your concerns equally and understand where you are coming from. It's easy to put hope in what we see as genuine repentance...burning the books, renunciation of past sins and habits. It makes it really easy to put a stamp of approval upon that convert. But, my brother I have had just that kind deny the faith later as well, I was sorely grieved in what he did, but I was not saddened for my actions toward him. Gifts and prayers and helps and monies and fellowship and counsels all eventually thrown out.
Yet God is treated this way every day, I hardly think in following Christ we would be treated differently.
He continues to bless even those that deny him, to imitate Christ is to get burned like he has and yet still continue to give and love.

This is my whole point, Kanye's final condition is not foreseen in those things good or bad he does now, it is for us to imitate Christ is offering grace even when appearances show us to be foolish.


_________________
Marvin

 2019/11/11 16:39Profile
Solomon101
Member



Joined: 2008/4/1
Posts: 530
America's Heartand

 Re:

Oracio, you state

Quote:
when he stops talking about how much of a genius he is and begins to acknowledge his sinfulness before a holy God .... come talk to me.

Just this past Saturday he was onstage with this foul and perverted rapper named Travis Scott at a wicked concert in Houston.



Later, Levi invited Jesus and his disciples to his home as dinner guests, along with many tax collectors and other disreputable sinners. (There were many people of this kind among Jesus’ followers.) But when the teachers of religious law who were Pharisees saw him eating with tax collectors and other sinners, they asked his disciples, “Why does he eat with such scum? - Mark 2:15-16

you have a log in your own eye. How can you think of saying to your friend, ‘Let me help you get rid of that speck in your eye,’ when you can’t see past the log in your own eye? Hypocrite! First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend’s eye. - Matthew 7:3-5

 2019/11/11 16:47Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1148
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:


Hi Brother:

you said: "Seems to me it is healthy and wise to have Kanye or anyone like him go through a quiet and out of the fray training and maturing process to insure that he is called to and equipped for such a high profile and impacting ministry. Paul's case is the best example of that wisdom"

well said, I heartily agree.

But we all know Pauls knocked-off-the-horse-conversion is not the mode of every believer, it never has been. Pauls blindness for 3 days is not the mode for converts. A voice from heaven rebuking Saul for persecuting Jesus himself.

You know all of this so I will labor no more on it. But we do know God has knocked many off their horses later on, he has exposed their pride and human willfulness as time went on.

The path God took Paul was only made for Paul, everyone else has God's own designed path they must take. Scrutiny of a man or woman who must take a far different path would never offer righteous discerning because God is the author of our faith, not ourselves nor the Church.

The Spirit of God that convicts of sin, righteousness and judgment does so in accordance with the master plan of God the Father, we may see the ear marks of repentance and renunciation of sins in the actions of saints gone by, but the specifics of how and when they arrived at them is the work of the Spirit...it is non-formulaic.


_________________
Marvin

 2019/11/11 16:57Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2039
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Hi Solomon, many times when professing Christians are confronted about their participation in night clubs and hanging out with the wrong crowds, they point to the fact that Jesus hung out and ate with sinners. Yet they don’t take into account that Jesus hung out with them to preach the gospel of the kingdom of God to them which included a call to repentance. He said He did not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance. Context, context, context brother.


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Oracio

 2019/11/11 17:05Profile





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