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JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1304
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brother Oracio

Ha! Seriously bro I totally get where you’re coming from on this and not only do I love you as a good and faithful brother in Christ, it honestly is (in part) comforting that you have an intent to be protective over the body of believers🙏🏻
But I’m wondering why he/they aren’t included in that desire to protect?
I mean I totally get not “jumpin on the hype train” but I honestly haven’t heard much support for him/them from you.... it’s like in the good fight radio show, they spent the bulk being skeptical and plugging themselves (sold soul rock n roll plugs) but they did have a brief, nay a very brief exhortation to pray for him (just in case). All while riding on the coat tales of Kanye’s fame !??? C’mon bro you know that’s a bit hypocritical-

It just seems so strange to me that instead of us (elder brothers) here on SÌ and elsewhere strategically praying and interceding (as we are clearly commanded in scripture) we are debating wether his conversion is legit ??
I mean honestly bro, how long we gonna give God to get Kanye straightened out?
I remember not that long ago the guy with the coolest name ever (OS) a good and faithful Christian brother (whom I’d never met) was going thru a difficult time and decided to step away for a while... I wasn’t sure what was going on (wether his conversion was real or fake) all I knew is my brother was hurting and so I asked the God that saves me, what He wanted me to do about it and He instructed me to pray and lift my brother up🙏🏻 I’m guessing brother Sandoval is glad I didn’t get on SI and start publicly questioning his salvation and critiquing his every misstep ... I wonder if God is disappointed in me that I didn’t do that??? 🤔


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Fletcher

 2019/11/10 7:31Profile
savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2028


 Re: sit-out




"It just seems so strange to me that instead of us (elder brothers) here on SÌ and elsewhere strategically praying and interceding (as we are clearly commanded in scripture) we are debating wether his conversion is legit ??"

So...I ask you...why don't you sit this one out?

Instead of debating whether his conversion is legit, why not do as we are clearly commanded in Scripture to do and get to strategically praying and interceding! If it just seems so strange to you...then take your own advice!

This thread would probably tone down if you'd just take your own advice and sit this one out.

 2019/11/10 8:30Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1304
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brother Savannah

Are you suggesting that I stand aside.... perhaps I should hold your coats while you all finish your business?


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Fletcher

 2019/11/10 9:37Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3259
Texas

 Re: savannah

Set it out? heck I'm just here to learn, if I set it out, I can't learn anymore, because I can't ask or respond to any questions. :-)

Just because we all didn't have Kanye's fame, my guess most of us were all Kanye's at one time, just less the fame....


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Mr. Bill

 2019/11/10 11:05Profile
NeedHim2018
Member



Joined: 2018/10/6
Posts: 3


 Re:

I have to admit that I don't really know much about Kayne West and his music. But have read with interest about his professing faith in Christ. Some of the lyrics of his new songs and titles of his new albums seem encouraging. I will admit though that his statement about not having done anything in the past that he's ashamed of to be concerning. I think that when we hear people say these sorts of things it should give us pause to wonder if the person has ever gotten a sense of their deep sinfulness before God. Or could it be that Kayne has experienced that revelation of his sinfulness..but in a moment of pride is not admitting it and is somewhat denying his faith? If that was the case, I'd say with shame that I've been there before more times than I care to admit...

But we should hope to see Kayne showing overall an acknowledgement  of his sinfulness, if he believes this truth in his heart. I John instructs us that one of the outward signs of a believer is someone whose come to recognize themselves in the way God sees them as being a sinner, deeply in need of God's forgiveness and cleansing.1 John 1:8,9:  " If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

On another note, Fletcher's admonition of being careful not to be an 'elder brother' is I think one that we need to take to heart. I'd like to share something on a personal level; something that's grieved my heart. I attend a church which focuses very strongly on good doctrine and on biblical preaching. My wife and I have been very blessed to have the opportunity to attend this church. As many of you know, all too often churches nowadays are overly seeker sensitive and preach sermons that are shallow and don't challenge us as Christians, because little of the pure Word of God is shared. Increasingly, I've heard people say, "If I could only attend a church where the word of God is preached...I'd give anything for that". This desire of many, I believe is a great thing.

Having shared now, about the positive side of this church I attend, I feel the need to also share about another side that's an area of weakness. I have often gotten the idea from pastors or speakers in our church that they are so thankful for having a church like ours, but it almost seems like they often present the idea that it's pretty much only our denomination that is in touch with God. The idea that other godly Christians exist among other denominations seems scarcely to be acknowledged. However, let's say this was the case, shouldn't we then be praying for these other Christians that they will repent and come back to their first love?

 It seems like this was the passion of men of God like Andrew Murray, when he wrote a booklet called, 'The State of the Church'. In it, he shared a lot of information which argued persuasively that the church of Christ was in a sad state of decline...Most importantly, the intent of this booklet was to stir up the hearts of Christians to see that yes the condition of the church was in a very low state....but for that reason more than ever, she needed a fresh infusion of God's power, through a pouring out of the Holy Spirit. If I remember correctly...this is just what happened. I seem to recall that God used this booklet as a catalyst, to awaken Christian's hearts to the need to pray for their weaker brothers, and for the society they were a part of...So this I believe is what happened...and a Revival from heaven followed. Praise God!

Thinking back to 1 John, another characteristic John gives us of a true Christian is someone who loves the brethren. In 1 John 2: 9,10 we're encouraged as follows: He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him".It's a sad thing but sometimes it can be the case that Christians who have a great love for doctrine and for the Word of God, may not always have a love for other Christians as they should (Sadly, this has certainly been true of me at times). Another characteristic of a Christian who is close to the heart of God it seems, is they should have a passion for souls, a love for the lost. This is something that Spurgeon emphasized often in his ministry.

Thinking of all these points, I feel that we should definitely have a concern that people like Kayne West should be exhibiting an understanding of his sinfulness and that he's walking the talk. However what if he's not? Then, whether he's a weak brother or whether not a Christian at all, we should probably pray for him. (Again this message is for me first as I don't do this as often as I should :)  )  For sure God's hand is not too short, and whether Kayne needs to be strengthened and matured in his Christian walk, or whether he needs to experience a genuine new birth, God can do it.

Please forgive the length of this post. It's just some of the things that have been shared by others connect with some of the things that have been on my mind for quite some time. Am thankful for the opportunity to discuss these things.

Take care and God bless  :)
John

 2019/11/10 13:30Profile
CofG
Member



Joined: 2017/2/12
Posts: 437
Cambodia

 Re:

I continue to be concerned that there is a big issue in all this that is looming. We seem to give songwriters a pass when what they write in their songs is often (not always) teaching of Christian doctrine. We say a Christian song is good or bad based often on whether it rightly presents the truth. The purpose of the song is clearly to instruct, persuade and direct people to truth and a true representation of a God and His ways.

I have often thought that great Christian songs are more powerful than many sermons I’ve heard in the truth they point to and bear out. Adding music to them often touches the heart more and gives greater remembrance.

I think I’ve come to the conclusion that song writers want to be teachers and are teachers of God’s word. Kanye West is too spiritually immature to be a teacher. His new album may be complete truth but the next one may be error. He shouldn’t be teaching through music unless called, mature and gifted.

I think Kanye’s case may highlight the lack of discernment the church has generally failed to exercise when it comes to teaching through music. We shouldn’t just discern the Biblical authority of the individual song but also the calling and maturity of the writer.


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Robert

 2019/11/10 19:11Profile
drifter
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Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 660
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

It is not my intention to criticize Kanye West. I am encouraged to see anyone take even one step towards Jesus. I just want his conversion to be genuine.

I wonder, though, why we as christians think we need big names and celebrities to promote Jesus. He often uses absolute nobodies to change society, bring revival etc.


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Nigel Holland

 2019/11/10 19:55Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1304
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:timing seems appropriate

13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body [a]to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not [b]puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, [c]thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is [d]perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.


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Fletcher

 2019/11/10 20:24Profile
CofG
Member



Joined: 2017/2/12
Posts: 437
Cambodia

 Re:

Hi Fletcher. The passage you cited was offered to the church in Corinth because they were allowing sinful ideas in the body, they were idolizing certain teachers and thus creating division and because they weren’t using their spiritual giftings to build up the Body but rather to build themselves up. This is exactly the kind of brotherly love that causes some to be just as concerned for the body of Christ as it is impacted by teachings no matter who it is as we all are for Kanye’s spiritual condition. I’m actually very concerned about Kanye’s soul because the platform he has and the attention he is receiving is the fertile ground for soul destroying pride that will in almost all cases overcome a new and immature believer on his platform.


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Robert

 2019/11/10 20:55Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1304
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brother Robert

It’s very encouraging to hear you are “actually concerned” about another brother 🙏🏻
Might I ask what the Holy Spirit of God is leading you to do other than voice your concerns repeatedly in a public forum?


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Fletcher

 2019/11/10 21:09Profile





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