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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : INERRANCY

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 Re:

/Is the mustard seed the smallest of all seeds?/

Matthew 13:31; Mark 4:30; and Luke 13:19

“The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and sowed in his field; and this is smaller than all other seeds; but when it is full grown, it is larger than the garden plants, and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and nest in its branches,” (Matt. 13:31; see also Mark 4:30; Luke 13:19).

No, the mustard seed is not the smallest of all seeds. Jesus was speaking proverbially. That is, he wasn't making a statement of absolute fact but using a proverbial style of communication.

There are different kinds of mustard trees in Israel and the mustard seed was the smallest of all the seeds known there and used by those in Israel. Also, notice that Jesus says that when it is full grown it is larger than the garden plants and becomes a tree so that the birds nest in it. There were many gardens in Israel with many types of plants, many of which were larger than the mustard plant. The olive tree for example, can grow to 20 feet or more. The mustard tree known as Salvadora persica has extremely small seeds and grows into a small bush. Brassica nigra is a mustard plant that grows to about 8 to 10 feet when mature and is probably the one Jesus was using for his illustration. Jesus would have known that it wasn't the largest of garden plants because of the prevalence of larger plants. Therefore, he was not making a botanical statement of fact. Instead, he was drawing attention to the comparison of the "smallest" to the "largest" and using it to illustrate how the Kingdom of heaven will expand in the world from a very small beginning to a huge presence.

Also, Jesus used the mustard seed elsewhere in a proverbial sense.

"And He said to them, “Because of the littleness of your faith; for truly I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you shall say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it shall move; and nothing shall be impossible to you," (Matt. 17:20; see also Luke 17:6).

So, we see that Jesus used the mustard seed in illustrations in the style of proverbs to illustrate a point and that he was not speaking in a scientifically accurate sense. (CARM.org)

/The sun does not go down./

Article XIII
We affirm the propriety of using inerrancy as a theological term with reference to the complete truthfulness of Scripture.
We deny that it is proper to evaluate Scripture according to standards of truth and error that are alien to its usage or purpose. We further deny that inerrancy is negated by Biblical phenomena such as a lack of modern technical precision, irregularities of grammar or spelling, OBSERVATIONAL DESCRIPTIONS OF NATURE, the reporting of falsehoods, the use of hyperbole and round numbers, the topical arrangement of material, variant selections of material in parallel accounts, or the use of free citations.


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David Winter

 2019/7/2 5:07Profile
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 Re: Dr. Sproul Defending Inerrancy

I found this delightful 43 minute video of R. C. Sproul defending inerrancy. He sure was a champion of the scriptures and them being God breathed inspired and therefore inerrant. It's really fascinating how he makes his case here.

Ultimately, Sproul ties inerrancy to the high view of scripture that Jesus had and taught. Also, he makes the case that Jesus didn't present Himself as someone who was going to talk about truth or carried the truth and was going to teach it but that Jesus presented Himself as the TRUTH who spoke only words from the TRUE God. So if Jesus knowingly or unknowingly taught a falsehood then He would be guilty of a sin and could not be our Savior. Therefore the inerrancy of scripture can be tied to the SINLESSNESS of Jesus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n_cWZZzzec.


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David Winter

 2019/7/2 5:24Profile
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 Re:

The happiest man in the world is a young preacher, before he's met to many Bible scholars ~ Vance Havner.


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Mr. Bill

 2019/7/2 14:36Profile
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 Re:

I suppose we could all park and remain babes in our understanding all our Christian lives. I mean one's understanding and view of the inspiratipn of scripture. How could that be important? Right?


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David Winter

 2019/7/2 15:28Profile
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 David

I think you missed Brother Vance’s message. He’s talking about the confusion one might get after he’s met to many know it all’s, this thread is a perfect example of what he was talking about.


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Mr. Bill

 2019/7/2 15:49Profile
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 Re: David

How does trying to know the details of what one believes and why they believe it make one a "know it all?" Some of the church would rather have and practice a studied indifference to some of the more important foundations and doctrines that have made up the history of the church. Meanwhile, Dr. Sproul and others don't strike me as know it alls. They love their faith and have tried to make some sense out of it. I say good for them.


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David Winter

 2019/7/2 17:49Profile
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 Re: David

David, there's 5 or 6 here that just take over these forums with their debates, that "maybe" some newcomers or new in Christ, might like to be involved. These debates, get so technical, most here can't even get involved, we're not all Bible scholars. Seems a little selfish to me, but you carry on with these debates, maybe someday you will be able to tell us all where God come from, or what he's about to do next. Hopefully your spending most of your time seeking God, and not trying to figure out every single word of his word, or find error in it.

Biblical inerrancy is the belief that the Bible "is without error or fault in all its teaching"; or, at least, that "Scripture in the original manuscripts does not affirm anything that is contrary to fact", and we want to debate this? This looks really good to someone that just come to Christ, Christians trying to debate to find error in his word? Carry on soldier....


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Mr. Bill

 2019/7/2 19:49Profile
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 Re:

Who is looking for error in the word? I just innocently asked a few questions to begin with because I have recently reviewed the subject and found that many famous names in the church believe there were errors in the original writings. Plus I'm a bit baffled by the emergence of a truly apostate church during these times and am wondering if their view of scripture and its inspiration can be connected to their obvious departure from the faith.I was curious as to how others saw this so I voiced some questions and thoughts about it.

/Seems a little selfish to me, but you carry on with these debates, maybe someday you will be able to tell us all where God come from, or what he's about to do next. Hopefully your spending most of your time seeking God, and not trying to figure out every single word of his word, or find error in it./

That's just a sarcastic projection of some sort coming from you and is without foundation. I guess some type of nerve may have been touched in you for some reason. I don't know what it is but I won't concern myself with it as I have affirmed the inerrancy of scripture as originally written along with its divine inspiration. There are likely many who would respond affirmatively when asked about their belief in the inerrancy of scripture but may not know entirely why they should believe in it. I'm interested in the why also. If that's a fault then there's nothing I can say.

Thank you.



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David Winter

 2019/7/2 22:24Profile
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 Re:

I think that we can all agree that Scripture is inerrant -- God-breathed and perfectly inspired. After all, Jesus is the Word of God.

The problem, of course, comes with translations.

Wycliffe states that all or parts of the Bible have been translated into over 3,350 languages. Within each of those languages have been many different attempts at translation. There have been more than 450 different English translations over the last 700 years.

Is there an inerrant translation of the Bible? This is difficult because each translation is the work of imperfect men. Unfortunately, we do not have the original texts -- written by the apostles' and prophets' own hands. Our earliest Greek manuscripts are still copies.

The great news is that flaws in translation (or apparent flaws) are few in number and really do not change the essence of the text.

A few years ago, a missionary on SermonIndex asked for volunteers to translate something into Spanish. I asked my wife and her sister. They both hold post-graduate degrees and engaged in translating the same document. Yet, there were notable differences in phrasing, grammar and even phonics. Yet, in essence, they were saying the same thing in slightly different ways.

When it comes to the many, MANY arguments and debates over the years over Bible translations, versions, etc., I tend to remember that the Bible (as a whole) did not exist for many centuries after our Lord's resurrection. There were no Bible bookstores to pick up a freshly-printed Bible.

What did believers in 400 A.D. do? How did they walk with the Lord without a Bible on their shelf? Most of them went to meet with other believers and heard the Word of God as it was read to them. This was referred to as "communal reading."

Today, we have access to literally thousands in different languages at the click of a mouse. Yet, this isn't true of many people in third world nations. There are places in the world where there are no Bibles. There are places where people would be killed if they had one or gave one away.

I think that we should obviously do our due diligence when studying these matters. However, I also fear that we miss the mark when it comes to the inerrancy of God's Word. I think that the biggest problem isn't trying to figure out which version, translation or sets of source texts is the most accurate -- but in what we do with what is indisputable truth regardless of the translation.

I think back to the Parable of the Talents (Matthew 25:14-30). We have been given more today than most believers before us. Most of us don't suffer for our faith. We have Bibles available at a click of a button. We have concordances, Bible dictionaries, books, commentary, worship music, etc. What are we doing with this "talent?"

For me, that is the most pressing issue in my own life. Do I spend more time debating the Word than spreading it?

God help me to do more with what He has given me!


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Christopher

 2019/7/3 0:19Profile
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 Re:

I think those are good and wise comments chris. Thank you for them.


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David Winter

 2019/7/3 5:03Profile





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