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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Problems with the "Literal" Adam

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JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1185
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:

Ex 20:11 word is “asah”
Gen 1 word is “bara”

Interpreting asah as “recreate” would render the text incomprehensible when taken in light of the usage of the two terms...
for example; in Genesis 1:26&27
The idea to create man is in fact expressed first as “asah” recreate???
While in verse 27 the act of creating is referred to as “bara”...
a quick word study reveals that interpreting asah in these passages as recreate would be at best careless-


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Fletcher

 2019/5/15 9:59Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5300
NC, USA

 Re:

One has to admit the gap theory solves certain seemingly insurmountable problems.

If correct one can have their cake (accept scientific evidence of billions of years old universe) and eat it too (accept more recent re-creation in 6 literal days).

I may have to research it further.


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Todd

 2019/5/15 12:02Profile
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1700


 Re:

Quote:

One has to admit the gap theory solves certain seemingly insurmountable problems.



Other than solving the questions posted by science(which I am not interested), it solves few Spiritual questions,
1. How can a perfect God create an Earth which was formless and empty, as indicated in Gen1:2.

2. When did the fall of Satan happen? Since Satan was already on the earth during Adam's creation, there should have been a period when he fell.


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Sreeram

 2019/5/15 12:59Profile
Gloryandgrace
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Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1062
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsa-A2ynkKs

Dr. Lisle is really good here.


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Marvin

 2019/5/16 12:24Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1185
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brother Marvin

That was quite good, thanks for sharing:))

Reminded me of the verse in 1 Timothy...

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:


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Fletcher

 2019/5/16 14:38Profile
deltadom
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Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1787
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

Strong's:+6231 257. עשׂה / Ah.S.H Translation:+Do Definition:+To bring to pass; to bring about; to act or make. AHLB:+1360-H (V) Strong's:+6213

No

40. ברא / B.R.A Translation:+Fatten Definition:+To make more substantial, fleshy or plump; to fill up. The filling of the earth in Genesis 1 with the sun, moon, plants and animals. The filling of man with breath and the image of Elohiym. AHLB:+1043-E (V)

No

What Hebrew lexicon have you been looking up as with the Hebrew root system there is no way that you can say that

There is no evidence of a recreation event in scripture

There is problems with the paleontology record study Dr John McKay and things like polystrata fossils.

The problems are not purely it is with destroying things like original sin and the fact that Jesus is called the second adam and that Jesus mentions Adam as an historical person

Matt 19
3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?

4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, (Compare)

5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Mark 10

5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.

6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. (Compare)

7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;

8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.

9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
The Gap theory is purely an evolutionary addendum to put evolution in genesis.

Paul in romans

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.


Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve

Inasmuch as man is saved, it is fitting that he who was created as the original man should be saved, too. . . . It was for this reason that, immediately after Adam had transgressed (as the Scripture relates), God pronounced no curse against Adam personally, but only against the ground. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W

1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

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The Gap theory brings a whole of host of theological problems and it adds to scripture

————————————-
Todd
The problems in not believing in a literal Adam , u say u don’t believe in a literal Adam but you believe in gap theory
God created the world perfectly , dinosaurs have cancer and there are thorns in the fossil record and the fossil record can be only formed through catastrophe
Did Jesus take billions of years to die for evolved apes or did god create humans ?
Is original sin a progeny of an original Adam ?

Gap Theory—an idea with holes
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T7olX8h7Fsk&t=646s

You destroy the foundation of the gospel if you believe in things like the gap theory

Todd I sometimes doubt your salvation


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Dominic Shiells

 2019/5/16 17:36Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3692
Ca.

 Re:

TMK wrote; "This is not a secondary issue"

Amen.

In Whom we have to deal with is God, from when He created Adam and Eve. Any time before that is not necessary for anything we have to deal with From Adam until now. If I ask God who made You, I kinda know what He would say, "that is none of your business, I have told you I always was and will always be. So if I created you, you have no one else to deal with when it comes to your salvation." There is only one that is primary in the issue of Gods Word; Jesus Christ who was birthed by God in Mary went to the Cross, died and was resurrected. The Gospel 1 Cor 15: 1-4 BELIEVE

This is my belief, anything before the foundation of the earth and creation means nothing. 6000 years of scripture is ok by me, this is the dispensation God has chosen for man.

Dom wrote: """You destroy the foundation of the gospel if you believe in things like the gap theory."""

Amen.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2019/5/17 3:31Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5300
NC, USA

 Re:

Dom wrote:

//The problems in not believing in a literal Adam , u say u don’t believe in a literal Adam //

WRONG! I specifically said I DO believe in a literal Adam. Please do not misquote me for your own nefarious purposes.

Do you doubt AW Pink’s salvation? He was a proponent of gap theory. So is Chuck Missler and so was Scofield to name only a few.


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Todd

 2019/5/17 7:36Profile
Gloryandgrace
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Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1062
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:

I have A.W Pink' book on Genesis. I love Pink but he turns a little green when incorporates the science-of-today ( for his generation) into Genesis.

Im no proponent of an old earth or a gap theory, but there are items the scripture clearly mention but leave unexplained.

"darkness was over the face of the deep"
"earth was without form and void"

Though there were no "days", there were elements, matter namely water and earth. When God created those, it is not mentioned. This does give room for hypothesis of ancient creation of the element.
But, the problem lay in 'hypothesis' or speculation, God spent no time explaining that, but he did explain the creation of life forms and those necessary bodies to sustain a physical creation.

I am a young earther, but based upon explicit texts not upon current science; though, I am glad to have ICR and others who help the Christian to realize there is another story the scientific data can tell.

If you take the first two verses of Genesis literally, you have God's quick summation. God created two things. The heavens and the earth. That's it.
So, what I see in Gen 1 is God filling the heavens and filling the earth.
I begs the question "then the earth must be the oldest of all planetary bodies?" Because the Heavens was just 'empty space'.


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Marvin

 2019/5/17 11:45Profile
twayneb
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Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 1983
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Exodus 20:11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The problem I have with the gap theory is that Exodus makes it a scriptural impossibility. Six days is six days.

When I was growing up, I was taught a 1000 year day theory of creation. It was based on the new testament scripture that says that a day with the Lord is as one thousand years and one thousand years as one day. I always wondered why this was taught as it seemed to me the scripture in the new testament was being ripped grossly out of context. Then one day, reading a book by the man who was responsible for my denominational group, I found the answer. He said that he believed this and that it more readily agreed with modern science which, at the time, claimed many tens of thousands of years as the age of the earth.

If you are going to use the gap theory, you have to somehow explain away or rip out of context Exodus 20:11.

Which brings me back to the OP. Is Adam literal? To claim that he is not literal is to deny the historicity of Genesis and relegate it to some sore of allegorical tale. The problem is that Genesis is a book of history. If we can deny the historicity of Gen. 1-3, then we can also deny the historicity of the entirety of Genesis through Deuteronomy, because they are written in the same style by the same author.

I think we run into real trouble when we look at modern science and try to use that as the measuring stick to which we compare scripture. Modern science is an attempt by fallen man to explain his surroundings and make sense of them. In some cases, man does a pretty good job of it. In some cases he flops. But in all cases, what is written in scripture is going to prove to be true despite man's ideas. Otherwise we undermine the veracity of scripture in our own mind. (Its veracity is absolute. We cannot change truth, but we can undermine truth in our own mind and hearts and become unfruitful or a worst turn from God.) .

Just some thoughts that have been brought up before I know, but that apply here as well I think.


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Travis

 2019/6/5 8:41Profile





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