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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Problems with the "Literal" Adam

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TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5300
NC, USA

 Re: TMK

Excellent video- thanks. I had watched the Exodus documentary on Netflix which was also very good.


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Todd

 2019/5/14 11:00Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1700


 Re: Kruger (jochbaptist)

You said Bible has to be interpreted literally but I have posted my concerns on that. Can you please address them? I am not interested in arguments but always wanted to know how people supporting literal interpretation pick and choose certain things.


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Sreeram

 2019/5/14 11:25Profile
jochbaptist
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Joined: 2010/11/24
Posts: 281


 Re: Sree

“Unless Bible clearly says that the earth was formed 6000 years before, we have NO reason to believe in such a view.”

Dear Brother
The Bible does say that clearly. In Exodus 20:11 it says - For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. This is a literal statement. The creation account, although brief and concise, spells this out very clearly & literally. Other creation narratives, like those in Job or the Psalms might be poetic, but Genesis 1&2 are literal accounts, saying that Adam was created on the sixth day. Thereafter his literal age, and those of his kin, is given in literal historical accounts. I don't agree with you, it is possible to discern whether something is stated literally. I am not saying everything is literal ... m
I am also not saying you are swayed by science. I am not calling anyone a heretic either. But when one is unswayed by clear, simple truths in scripture it smacks to me of narcissism. - The unwillingness to accept truth (unteachable), and the inclination to determine their own belief system.

You can believe in a gap theory, but just remember to tippex out Exodus 20:11 :)
Blessings


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J Kruger

 2019/5/14 18:48Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5300
NC, USA

 Re:

The gap theory posits an unknown period of time between Genesis 1:1 and Gen 1:2. Ex 20:11 does nothing to disprove the idea because some persons who believe in gap theory also believe in 7 literal creation, or re-creation days.


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Todd

 2019/5/14 19:54Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1700


 Re:

Quote:

Ex 20:11 does nothing to disprove the idea because some persons



I do not believe Gap theory is right but I see it having a valid argument against earth being 6000 years old. I think I made my point here which is a neutral stand.

But I would like to know how Ex 20:11 does not disprove gap theory. Can you please expound on this?


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Sreeram

 2019/5/14 20:14Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5300
NC, USA

 Re:

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
Genesis 1:1-2

Gap theorists interpret “was” in v2 as “became” which apparently is also a legitimate interpretation. Thus the creation account is actually a re-creation account, the theory being that there was an earlier creation destroyed by cataclysm- possibly due to Satan’s fall- but that dinosaurs etc existed in the earlier creation until they were destroyed.

Ex 20:11 does not disprove gap theory because gap theorists still believe in 7 literal days of (re)creation.

I have never been a fan of the gap theory. I prefer the idea that Gen 1 is a poetic description of God’s creation of the universe. I simply cannot accept that the universe is only 6000 years old. But we’ve been over that ad infinitum in the past. I couldn’t care less what folks believe about the universe as long as they believe God created it.


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Todd

 2019/5/14 20:51Profile
jochbaptist
Member



Joined: 2010/11/24
Posts: 281


 TMK

"Ex 20:11 does not disprove gap theory because gap theorists still believe in 7 literal days of (re)creation."

Then they have to concede that the heavens was also recreated - which is silly. Nowhere will you find that the heavens "became" ....

Ex 20:11 - For in SIX DAYS the LORD made HEAVEN AND EARTH, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day.

You can waltz around Ex 20:11 as much as you like, but Scripture can not be broken.

Also , let me quote Genesis 1:1&2, and please point out to me what you read as "poetic" about it -

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters.

Poetic - definition

• written in verse rather than prose.
• having an imaginative or sensitively emotional style of expression.

synonyms: expressive, figurative, symbolic, flowery, moving, aesthetic, artistic, tasteful, graceful


Blessings




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J Kruger

 2019/5/15 3:06Profile
deltadom
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Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1787
Hemel Hempstead

 Re: TMK

This has many theological implications on the nature of the gospel
If you do not believe in a literal Adam then there is no literal fall, no need for a second adam
This is not a secondary issue

The gospel , the need for a saviour

Once you destroy the foundation everything else is up for grabs

I have read the so called egyptian creation story it is nothing like genesis and with the genonlogies.

It is only recently that people believe in billions of years as none of the early commentators

Why did Jesus even come and die for our sin if there is no original sin

If there is no death before the fall as the Bible says the world was created perfect but sin destroyed it .
You cannot believe this if you believe in billions of years.


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Dominic Shiells

 2019/5/15 4:14Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5300
NC, USA

 Re:

Dom-

What kind of “death?”

I already said I believe in a literal Adam.

Jochb-

What “heavens?”

A gap theorist would say that eons ago God created the universe which would include “heavens” but that creation fell into ruin and had to be remade, which is what Gen 1:2 and thereafter describes.

Like I said I am not a proponent of this but again Ex 20:11 does not render the interpretation impossible.

ADD: Arthur Pink and Chuck Missler were proponents of gap theory.


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Todd

 2019/5/15 7:27Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1700


 Re: TMK

Quote:

"Ex 20:11 does not disprove gap theory because gap theorists still believe in 7 literal days of (re)creation."

Then they have to concede that the heavens was also recreated - which is silly. Nowhere will you find that the heavens "became" ....

Ex 20:11 - For in SIX DAYS the LORD made HEAVEN AND EARTH, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day.




I think TMK is right. I did some research and the word for create that i used in Ex 20:11 is different from that used in Gen 1. It means recreate. So in short Ex 20:11 can be read as, God recreated heavens and earth in 6 days. Which still holds the gap theory a possible option.

Again I am still neutral, I do not believe Bible says anything about earth's age. Gap theory is a valid argument that puts a considerable possibility that the earth can be old as indicated by science.

If Bible clearly says that earth was created 6000 years ago then I will believe it no matter what Science says. Like I said before, Bible is not intended to answer any of Science's questions. It was revealed to man by the Holy Spirit based on his knowledge of things. If God revealed Genesis to today's man it will be more detailed.


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Sreeram

 2019/5/15 9:30Profile





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