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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Be holy, because I am holy – 1 Pet. 1:16

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TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5241
NC, USA

 Re:

Philip-

Love is an abstract idea but we don’t doubt its reality. But it is not an actual “thing.” That is what I mean by abstract.

God the Father, God the Holy Spirit, are spirit. They have no blood to provide.

You are trying to argue that sin is a “substance” that resides in human blood and therefore Jesus could not have had human blood.

Your premise is dreadfully amiss which requires an absurd conclusion.


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Todd

 2019/4/14 7:46Profile
jochbaptist
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Joined: 2010/11/24
Posts: 279


 The seed of the Woman

Dear Christinyou

Sorry to hear about your wife, and also rejoicing in the hope of her resurrection.

Thank you for what you shared.
Have you ever looked at the aspect of epigenetics as vehicle to convey “sin” to the next generation?
Blessings


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J Kruger

 2019/4/14 18:20Profile
BranchinVINE
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Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 539
Australia

 Re:

Philip,

Are you saying that men are sinners because of “sinful” blood?

But Adam sinned when he had “sinless” blood.

God certainly did not create Adam with “sinful” blood for “God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good” (Gen. 1:3).

How do you explain that?



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Jade

 2019/4/15 7:15Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5241
NC, USA

 Re:

It seems that Jochb and Philip think that sin is a physical substance or is somehow transmitted genetically- ie there is a “sin gene” or a sin marker on a gene.

I think this is a dangerous line of thinking.


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Todd

 2019/4/15 10:32Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1062
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:


It looks like we are drifting toward where the 'soul' comes from.

The Soul is the creation of God in every man. The soul cannot be merely metaphysical, otherwise it would perish with the body, but according to scripture the soul lives on.

Yet, when God gives the Soul to a child, it is not intrinsically indwelt by the life of God. The soul has the limitation of being 'only human'.

It is because of this 'only human aspect' the soul is alienated from God from birth. Therefore it knows nothing of divine life or will from birth, it knows only it's own will and desires.

The soul is not to be viewed in terms of metaphysical naturalism. The soul is not the product of human self-perception or merely and inner-awareness-with-identity.

The soul speaks without a body as seen scripture, it feels pain, suffering, knows justice and mercy all without the body. It remembers its life and knows the existence of God and his judgments.

Sin is disobedience to God's law, it is the soul living unto itself without regard to God that marks the youngest to the oldest as sinners. They body is the vehicle of the souls existence in this world. God designed the body to contain the soul where it would live and function in this world.


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Marvin

 2019/4/15 11:34Profile
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Joined: 2018/9/6
Posts: 154


 Has Christ come in the flesh?


If Christ did come in the flesh, what kind of flesh was it? Why is that important?
Written by Johan Oscar Smith

Jesus Christ has come in the flesh

“By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh Sin is anything that goes against God’s will and His laws. To commit sin is to transgress or disobey these laws. The lust to sin dwells in human nature. In other words, it is contaminated and motivated by the sinful tendencies that dwell in all people as a result of the fall into sin and disobedience in the garden of Eden. This... More is of God …” 1 John 4:2. “For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.” 2 John 7.

Nowadays it is very common that even people who call themselves believers deny that Christ has come in the flesh. They say He had a flesh like an angel, like Adam before the fall, a divine flesh, etc. All of these theories deny that Christ has come in the flesh.

“Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.” Hebrews 2:14-15.

Not a different kind of flesh

If Christ’s flesh was like that of Adam before the fall, the devil could not have been destroyed by death, because death and the devil were unknown to Adam. Adam did not fear death, so that fear could not have kept him in bondage and in need of liberation.

Christ did not take upon Himself the nature of an angel. “For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren The “brothers” and “sisters” are those who are a part of the church of Christ. (Matthew 23:8; Matthew 12:50; Hebrews 2:10-18)... More, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.” Hebrews 2:16-18.

Before the fall, did Adam suffer when he was tempted? No, he gave in to the temptation. A person who sins does not suffer when he is tempted; he chooses to sinTo commit sin is to consciously do something that you know goes against God’s will. This can be in word, deed, or even thought. (James 1:14-15)... More rather than to suffer. (Job 36:21) Christ suffered when He was tempted; He resisted the lustsThe desires that we experience that go against God’s will. In other words, a desire for anything sinful. See James 1:14. Also called “sin in the flesh.” Although the expression “youthful lusts” is often thought of in connection with sinful sexual desires, lusts include anything that go against what is good and right in God’s eyes. (2 Timothy 2:22.; Galatians... More in His own flesh. Each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own lusts and enticed. (James 1:14)

Some people say that Christ did not have a flesh with lusts that could draw and entice Him. If He did not have lusts, then He did not have flesh and blood like ours. And if He did not have flesh and blood like ours, then He could not have been tempted like we are, nor can He be a High Priest for us with understanding and compassion for us in our temptations.

Denying that Christ has come in the flesh is nullifying His work

Jesus had to be made like His brethren in all things. What are His brothers like? What kind of flesh do they have? Do they have the flesh of angels? Did the angels need to be liberated from bondage because of fear of death? No, but the seed of Abraham needed to be liberated.

Why, then, do people not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh? There is only one reason: They are enemies
Most often when a Christian refers to his or her “enemies” they are speaking about the sin in their flesh and the temptations and lusts that arise from there. These are enemies because they tempt us to act contrary to the will of God. These can also be spiritual powers such as the spirit of the times which oppose the... More of the cross of Christ and enemies of being made like Him in His flesh and in His death. (Philippians 3:10,18)

This is precisely where the spirit of antichrist works. People do not confess that Christ has come in the flesh. As a result, they nullify the entire work of Christ—His sufferings, His death and His high priestly ministry. This is the prevailing spirit today, even in the so-called independent assemblies.

Why Jesus can free us from the power of death

“What the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh

Sin is anything that goes against God’s will and His laws. To commit sin is to transgress or disobey these laws. The lust to sin dwells in human nature. In other words, it is contaminated and motivated by the sinful tendencies that dwell in all people as a result of the fall into sin and disobedience in the garden of Eden. This... More, on account of sin

Sin is anything that goes against God’s will and His laws. To commit sin is to transgress or disobey these laws. The lust to sin dwells in human nature. In other words, it is contaminated and motivated by the sinful tendencies that dwell in all people as a result of the fall into sin and disobedience in the garden of Eden. This... More: He condemned sin in the flesh

Sin is anything that goes against God’s will and His laws. To commit sin is to transgress or disobey these laws. The lust to sin dwells in human nature. In other words, it is contaminated and motivated by the sinful tendencies that dwell in all people as a result of the fall into sin and disobedience in the garden of Eden. This... More …” Romans 8:3.

God condemned sin in the flesh. In whose flesh was sin condemned? Was it in Jones’ or Brown’s or Johnson’s flesh? No, it was in Christ’s flesh.

Christ reigned over sin in the flesh because He always subjected His will to God’s will. “Not My will, but Yours, be done.” Thus, He destroyed that which made the flesh powerless, the thing that made the law impossible.

What is a person like according to the flesh? Does he rule over sin? No, sin rules over him. Who is the ruler: he who rules, or he who is ruled over? Of course, it is he who rules. Now Christ has ruled over sin in the flesh, because God sent Him on account of sin. (Romans 8.3) That is precisely why He can free us from the power of death and the devil, so that the demands of the law can be fulfilled in us who walk according to the Spirit.

Christ rules over sin in the flesh, over death and over all the power of the devil. This is the fruit of Christ coming in the flesh. For us who believe, these mysteries of Christ are a rich source of comfort and liberation from everything by which we were formerly imprisoned.


This article is translated from Norwegian, and is an edited version of an article that was first published in BCC’s periodical Skjulte Skatter (Hidden Treasures) in May 1915
© Copyright Stiftelsen Skjulte Skatters Forlag


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Vern

 2019/4/15 14:34Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3686
Ca.

 Re:

Quote: """Philip,

Are you saying that men are sinners because of “sinful” blood?

But Adam sinned when he had “sinless” blood.

God certainly did not create Adam with “sinful” blood for “God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good” (Gen. 1:3).

How do you explain that?"""

Adam was perfect including His blood, but he chose to sin and partake of the tree of good and evil, of which God told him not to do.

That had to change Adam in some way and because of his sin, sin passed unto all mankind. There has to be a marker of some kind that all mankind has to inherit from Adam. The blood line of Christ is seen in scripture from David even unto Mary and Joseph. This is where Jesus is different from all other men. He had no father from any human, but His Father was God and the blood of Jesus had a body and blood prepared for Him by God in the virgin birth through Mary that He could be of human flesh from the ovum in the womb of her flesh, so Jesus' mother gave Him flesh and bone of Adam, a man as we see in scripture, His Father gave Him blood compatible to the body, but not from the blood of Adam that gives all the world and mankind sin, be physical of spiritual. What ever marker it might be it comes from Adams sin, the father of all mankind except Jesus of which Jesus had none of.

The answer is pretty plain to me; Jesus is the only man that could shed His blood and take up His own life and put it down by His own power at the Cross and the only shedding of blood God could accept as redemption for the whole world.

Revelation 5:9 (KJV) And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

The living blood of Christ is the only blood that will ever be in Heaven. To this day and forever it still has the power to save to the utmost. When the blood of Christ sets us free we are free indeed.

My redemption is in the Blood of Christ, He in me and me in Him forever: Able to get rid of my flesh and blood that I might enter Heaven with the same new body that Jesus Has as my Born Again new live with a body like His at the resurrection. Amen

Phillip


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Phillip

 2019/4/16 3:13Profile
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Joined: 2018/9/6
Posts: 154


 Re: WARNING!!

To say that the WORD (Jesus Christ) did not come to earth in human flesh is the most satanic lie that I have read on SI.

This teaching has it roots in hell and is completely contrary to scripture. Look again at the scriptures that I posted before that denounce your teaching.

“This is precisely where the spirit of antichrist works. People do not confess that Christ has come in the flesh. As a result, they nullify the entire work of Christ - His sufferings, His death and His high priestly ministry. This is the prevailing spirit today, even in the so-called independent assemblies.”

You have posted on SI 3663 times but now you need to very seriously pray about this.

If you continue to teach this lie you will discredit yourself and completely wipe out any worth in all your posts.

Please DO NOT TAKE THIS LIGHTLY or just brush it off. Jesus Christ came to earth in human flesh (the same flesh that we have) is the very essence and core of the gospel. If you remove that fact – there is NO GOSPEL!!!


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Vern

 2019/4/16 6:42Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1062
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:


Hi Phillip:

you said "That had to change Adam in some way and because of his sin, sin passed unto all mankind. There has to be a marker of some kind that all mankind has to inherit from Adam. The blood line of Christ is seen in scripture from David even unto Mary and Joseph. This is where Jesus is different from all other men. He had no father from any human, but His Father was God and the blood of Jesus had a body and blood prepared for Him by God in the virgin birth through Mary that He could be of human flesh from the ovum in the womb of her flesh, so Jesus' mother gave Him flesh and bone of Adam, a man as we see in scripture, His Father gave Him blood compatible to the body, but not from the blood of Adam that gives all the world and mankind sin, be physical of spiritual. What ever marker it might be it comes from Adams sin, the father of all mankind except Jesus of which Jesus had none of."

I don't have time to pull it apart, so I'll just make the assertions.
1. The above quote is full of contradiction/truth/error.
2. This admixture of truth and error creates a 'hybrid' man, not a man after Adam which scripture clearly declares.
3. Your 'hybrid' man Jesus Christ cannot consistently be found in scripture.

In your eagerness to sanctify the blood of Christ you have made the obvious error of creating a hybrid human that none of us can actually associate with.

Vern is right, youre now teaching us all about a Jesus that is not consistent with scripture or consistent with any orthodox teachings from the ancients.

The tricky part of course is you surround this hybrid with all the praises due to the 'scriptural Jesus', where he as a man, with a mans blood, a mans body, a man's soul lived sinless. I say tricky because in doing this, the casual observer will say "he's praising Jesus for his redemption through his blood". When in fact the Jesus you are asserting here is not the 'last Adam' but the first hybrid.

Either you are listening to or reading some really weird teachers or you have begun to make some fundamental errors in your theology...so errant as to incur Vern's right and good warning to you.


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Marvin

 2019/4/16 11:33Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3686
Ca.

 Re: The seed of the Woman

J Kruger,

Thanks a lot, that clears up a lot of speculation when it comes to how God purposed "you shall surely die" and also how He continues to cleans us from all unrighteousness. No wonder faith is the only thing that is pleasing to God when it comes to our salvation.

It kind of feels like my mind will explode with the things of God.

Thanks again
In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2019/4/16 15:16Profile





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