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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Christian dishwasher fired by hotel because she refused to work Sundays awarded $21M

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MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3185
Texas

 Re: Nigel

Nigel, Ravenhill lived in very, very different times. Read 2nd Timothy 3:1-5 as we get closer to Christ returning, we can't expect to relive the old school days, I didn't say this God did in 2nd Timothy.

But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.


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Mr. Bill

 2019/1/22 9:58Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 1994
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

It is often pointed out by Seventh Day Adventists and others that the Sabbath was instituted at the creation of the world, before the Mosaic Covenant, according to Genesis 2:2-3. However, we do not read of Adam, Noah, Abraham or any other patriarch keeping the sabbath before the Exodus. The earliest mention of the Sabbath after Genesis 2 is in Exodus 16. We’re told there that Israel was commanded to keep the Sabbath about 2 and a half months after the Exodus.

But how can we account for the fact that Genesis says God “sanctified” the seventh day when He rested from creation?

I’ll say first that resting from work at least one day a week can be a wise and needful principle to observe due to our bodies needing some rest to function well enough and to be productive. We were not meant to be workaholics and work seven days a week with no days of rest.

Also, God’s resting on the seventh day was symbolic of a few things. Firstly, it was symbolic of the future Sabbath instituted through Moses. Secondly, it was symbolic of the future rest Israel would have from their enemies in Canaan.

“The Lord gave them rest all around, according to all that He had sworn to their fathers. And not a man of all their enemies stood against them; the Lord delivered all their enemies into their hand. 45 Not a word failed of any good thing which the Lord had spoken to the house of Israel. All came to pass.”-Joshua 21:44-45

Hebrews 3 and 4 mentions that “earthly” rest which many Israelites failed to enter because of their unbelief.

And thirdly, it was symbolic of the spiritual rest we experience as believers in Christ, as Jesus declared in Matthew 11:28-30,

“28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

Hebrews 3 and 4 teaches that the rest God gave Israel in Canaan was symbolic of the spiritual rest we experience in Christ (see Hebrews 3:16-19 and the whole of Hebrews 4). Hebrews 4 also teaches that God’s resting on the seventh day was also symbolic of that spiritual rest in Christ and ceasing from our own works. I’ll share the pertinent portion of Hebrews 4 here:

“1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: “So I swore in My wrath, ‘They shall not enter My rest,’” although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; 5 and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.” 6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said: “Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts.” 8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.”-Hebrews 4:1-10


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Oracio

 2019/1/22 11:15Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3185
Texas

 Re:

Oracio, thank you so much for using scripture to show your point/points, this is what we need more here everyday, more scripture, and less opinions. I know it's hard to believe, but most Pastors express a lot of opinions, just listen real carefully to any sermon, and compare the scriptures mentioned in any sermon, to the opinions, especially these days.
God Bless!


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Mr. Bill

 2019/1/22 11:30Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 1994
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Hi Bill, thanks for the encouragement! It's a privilege to share from my studies of God's Word. God bless you too brother!


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Oracio

 2019/1/22 14:29Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1062
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:


When I was young and my wife and I were newly married we both kept a Saturday Sabbath. For about the first 7 years of our marriage we didn't work on Saturday, but attended a Church and witnessed on the streets.

While I was doing this, I was in the Marine Corp. It was rare I had to break the Sabbath. The majority of the time I was in, I didn't work Saturdays but Saturday night till Thursday night. I was able to keep the Sabbath, I know the Lord made a way for my wife and I all through this.

Only occasionally on a special duty or detachment I had to work. Even then I was blessed to be able to have my Sabbath uninterrupted. You would think the Marine Corp would make this impossible, but God always made a way.

I was not seventh day Adventist, neither was my wife, we were more seventh day Pentecostals (Im sure there are a few left)

We never made it a 'law' to anyone outside of ourselves because under the new covenant Sabbath keeping is not commanded (you wont find Gentiles commanded to keep the Sabbath). Some Churches did and they judged others as inferior to them because of it. When I spoke up and said "Their righteousness is imputed, the Sabbath does not add to righteousness"...you would have thought I just introduced Baal worship into the mix.

But, I appreciate and understand those who keep a Sabbath...and I think they are better off and I was better off.


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Marvin

 2019/1/22 16:53Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1062
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:


Ravenhill's quote "To paraphrase Leonard Ravenhill:

"Why should your unconverted neighbor be concerned about breaking the Ten Commandments when you don't keep the Sabbath holy? You can break that one and he can break the other nine!"

Be careful at taking these at face value... Decades past the Church considered Sunday the Christian's Sabbath and spoke of Sunday as a Sabbath. I do not ever recall Ravenhill being a sabbatarian, but I do know men like himself would rebuke for Sunday Church absence = Sabbath breaking.


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Marvin

 2019/1/22 17:02Profile
drifter
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 609
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

I hope no one took offense to my posts, as they were not written to pass judgment on anyone. I appreciate differing viewpoints, even if I strongly disagree.

Todd, I would quote Jesus when He said "the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath." It's a rest day, meant to refresh a person after a hard week's work (I would burn out pretty quick if I didn't rest one day a week). I'm not going to follow a bunch of legalistic rules like the Pharisees did.

Marvin, I don't think Ravenhill would rebuke me for keeping the Sabbath on Saturday; I've heard him quote D. L. Moody and Moody advocated keeping the Sabbath on another day if you have to work Sunday.

If I could have one tenth the effectiveness Ravenhill did (or Finney, or Wesley etc.) I would consider my life a smashing success. We would do well to listen to what they had to say. Give me the old paths.


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Nigel Holland

 2019/1/22 17:36Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3185
Texas

 Re:Nigel

Nigel said "If I could have one tenth the effectiveness Ravenhill did (or Finney, or Wesley etc.) I would consider my life a smashing success. We would do well to listen to what they had to say".

Brother you cut yourself and the Holy Spirit that resides in you short. You don't think at some point in their young ministries Ravenhill, Finney or Wesley might have said the same as you in reference to their peers?

Mark 10:27 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man it is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God.”

Mark 9:23 ESV And Jesus said to him, “‘If you can’! All things are possible for one who believes.”

Cheer up Brother! You give man to much credit, with the power that resides in you, you could make Ravenhill, Finney and Wesley look like Sunday School Teachers.


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Mr. Bill

 2019/1/22 18:02Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5231
NC, USA

 Re:

Amen Bill! Of course that goes for all of us.


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Todd

 2019/1/22 18:59Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3185
Texas

 Re: Todd

Yes! of course Todd. :-)


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Mr. Bill

 2019/1/22 19:20Profile





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