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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Christian dishwasher fired by hotel because she refused to work Sundays awarded $21M

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MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3163
Texas

 Re:

This is one of the reason I really don't post here much anymore. I'm not on any side of this debate, and I could care less of what any pastors opinion is, I just need scripture, could we please just stick to God's Uncompromising Word on this subject, opinion is not absolute truth, I'm interested what God say's.
Thanks!


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Mr. Bill

 2019/1/21 18:54Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5188
NC, USA

 Re:

Actually, Christians who don't observe the Sabbath are not breaking it. Whether they are Jews or Gentiles, they simply are not under the Mosaic law.

The book of Galatians documents Paul’s argument regarding those who were misled into thinking they had to obey the law of Moses.

We who are Jesus' disciples are not under the law of Moses; we are under the law of Christ (1 Cor 9:21, Gal 6:2).

Those who attempt to keep the OT law and the law of Christ are adulterers (Rom 7:3-4).

That being said I do think it’s a good idea to go to church and generally take it easy on Sunday if possible but there is no condemnation on those who can’t or don’t want to.


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Todd

 2019/1/21 20:01Profile
drifter
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Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 589
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

I am not justified by keeping the law of Moses, but that does not mean I throw it away. I can't go sleep with my neighbour's wife because I am not under the law anymore.

Remember, God instituted the Sabbath at creation; He reiterated it in the Ten Commandments. Even Jesus kept the Sabbath (not the traditions of men, mind you).

Remember what Paul said in Ephesians 6:2? "Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise." Imagine Paul telling people to keep one of the commandments?

And the writer to the Hebrews: "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them." 10:16


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Nigel Holland

 2019/1/21 21:32Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 1994
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Amen Daniel. This is something Christians can and should agree to disagree on without dividing over it.

A few things to add to what Todd shared.

The Sabbath was an ordinance given to the nation of Israel under the Old Covenant.

“Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’”-Exodus 31:16-17

“And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.”-Deuteronomy 5:15

“Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them.”-Ezekiel 20:12

In the New Testament, there is no mention of any sabbath day being binding on Christians today. To the contrary, Colossians 2 tells us we are not obliged to keep any sabbath days, which would include Saturday or “Sunday Sabbaths.”

“16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.”-Col. 2:16-17

As Todd shared, the sabbath was part of the Old Mosaic Covenant. The New Testament teaches us that the Old Mosaic Covenant was made obsolete with the establishment of the New Covenant in Christ. Hebrews 8:6-13 makes this very clear. I'll share verse 13 here:

“In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.-Heb. 8:13

A common objection to this viewpoint is, “But what about the Ten Commandments? Aren’t we still commanded to keep them? And isn’t the Sabbath a part of them? How can we tell people they are under obligation to keep the Ten Commandments while telling them they are not under obligation to keep the 4th of those Commandments?"

The Ten Commandments were a summary of the whole Mosaic Law, they were “technically” a part of that whole system of law. With the “discarding” of the Mosaic Law, the Ten Commandments were also “technically” made obsolete as being part of that whole system. I’ll try to clarify because I do believe 9 of those Commandments are still in force today, I do not advocate antinomianism (immorality or lawlessness).

But first I’ll share a New Testament passage that seems to teach that the Ten Commandments “passed away” with the establishment of the New Covenant in Christ:

“8 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.”-2 Corinthians 3:8-11

Paul says that the "ministry of death and condemnation" was "passing away." And that "ministry" was "written and engraved on stones" at mount Sinai, clearly referring to the Ten Commandments.

So how can nine of the Ten Commandments be binding today if they were all made obsolete? Because 9 of those Commandments are also part of God’s eternal, unchanging, universal Moral Law. That universal moral law is taught throughout both the Old and New Testaments. The Old Mosaic Covenant (including the Ten Commandments) also contained that universal moral law code. But the Mosaic Covenant, as a "whole system of law," was made obsolete by the New Covenant in Christ.

All the moral laws taught in the Old Covenant (including nine of the Ten Commandments) were carried over into the New Covenant. As Todd shared, God's moral law which is binding on Christians today is called “The Law of Christ.”

“To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.”-1 Corinthians 9:21

“Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.”-Galatians 6:2

I know it can get confusing at first. What I’m proposing here is termed New Covenant Theology. Three major Theological systems are Covenant Theology, Dispensationalism, and New Covenant Theology.

All that being said, I do believe it is good for us to rest from work at least one day a week because our bodies need it to function well.


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Oracio

 2019/1/21 22:03Profile
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Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 589
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43wrkiXLjPA

"If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it." Isaiah 58:13,14

"God has hinged revival onto keeping the Sabbath."


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Nigel Holland

 2019/1/21 22:33Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 1994
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

I have a deep respect for the ministry of the late Leonard Ravenhill as I've benefited much from his writings and audio sermons. But I do believe he was wrong on this issue. I don't think we can or should expect for any preacher to have 100% perfect theology, no matter how solid he is or was.

This sabbath issue reminds me of another Old Covenant law that some Christians teach is for today, namely tithing.


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Oracio

 2019/1/21 22:49Profile
MrBillPro
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3163
Texas

 Re: Oracio

“I don't think we can or should expect for any preacher to have 100% perfect theology, no matter how solid he is or was”.

I agree 100%


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Mr. Bill

 2019/1/22 0:28Profile
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5188
NC, USA

 Re:

Also, in regard to the story in the OP, the cross this woman had to bear for staying true to her religion is decidedly gold-plated.


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Todd

 2019/1/22 7:15Profile
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Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 589
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

To reiterate my position, the Sabbath day was instituted before the Mosaic law. "And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it..." Genesis 2:3

I agree that no preacher has perfect theology, but I trust Ravenhill; he saw revival, we have not. I put a lot more stock in experimental theology rather than academic theology.


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Nigel Holland

 2019/1/22 8:02Profile
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5188
NC, USA

 Re:

Nigel-

To what “extent” do you think the Sabbath should be kept?

In other words, what should we do and not do on the Sabbath?


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Todd

 2019/1/22 8:27Profile





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