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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Is the problem "unwillingness" or "inability" ?

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 Re:

Hi Mak.

That is the question that I ask myself a lot. First, no man can truly please God which I think you would agree with. Second, there were people who were considered “blameless” in His sight in the OT and pleased God in the NT. Paul says that “True Israel” was circumcised in heart. I think circumcision of the heart is the key to being a part of the covenant people of God in the OT and in the NT as I understand that text.

and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but "Through Isaac shall your offspring be named."
This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. - Romans 9:7-8

For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God. - Romans 2:28-29

So with that said and with that support and other support, it is those who are circumcised of heart who are of the covenant people of God who, freed from the sinful nature of the flesh, are able to practice righteousness. In the NT, the Holy Spirit indwells all the believers giving life and power that allows the child of God to become like Jesus which is far superior to what The OT saints were capable of.

The key is that Jesus is true Israel and the Jews inwardly, Jews, Samaritans and Gentiles who are in Him, are saved. Can please God.

That’s my understanding of Scripture. Can’t speak for rest.

Add. Mak, I want to add for the conversation that I’m a firm believer in charismatic gifts and do not adhere to “traditional church” ecclesiology preferring house chuches and the ministry of the saints and would be disowned by Calvinist, conservative Presbyterians and Baptists and most reformed believers I’m not coming at this from a system of theology. I take Scripture literally no matter where it divides me from others.




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Robert

 2018/12/18 19:32Profile
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 Re:

Thanks Robert,

What is your view of people like Solomon, who have a mixed testimony? Were they "circumcised" for a time? Do you consider those who did well for a time, but ended very poorly to have been the "elect" circumcised by God?

mak


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Alan and Dina Martin

 2018/12/18 19:53Profile
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 Re:

Mak, please check out my “Add” to my most recent post.
To answer your question, as far as we can speculate, Solomon fell as many do but the question is whether their fall was final and without repentance. No indication of that in Scripture w/r to Solomon.


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Robert

 2018/12/18 20:01Profile
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 Re:

Thank you so much Robert, I can not express how much my own experience has brought me to the same place you have so beautifully expressed.


I am grateful to have had these opportunities to connect through this forum with such precious brothers.


mak


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Alan and Dina Martin

 2018/12/18 20:12Profile
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 Re:

I would also be interested in reading your understanding of the Parable of the Sower. I consider it a parable about the different way men hear. How does your understanding of the man dead in sin and in need of a circumcised heart apply to our Lord’s admonition to “be very careful HOW you hear, for with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. However has will be given more and he will have an abundance, who does not have, even what he thinks he has will be taken from him”

How do you see the 4 types of hearers? Are the first three all “unregenerated”? Is Jesus describing three different ways spiritually dead men hear the gospel and interact with it? Is the second soil, the man who receives the word and believes for awhile, someone who was never regenerated but allowed by sin to go so far before putting his faith to an end?

I think you get the idea. I would like to know your views on these different ways of hearing and your thoughts on why the Lord would categorize different ways of hearing in men if the real problem is that none of them are able to hear because they need to be regenerated first.

Mak


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Alan and Dina Martin

 2018/12/19 5:53Profile
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 Many have simply have disregarded what Christ did.

So far in this discussion I have not seen the real Good news of the gospel shared. Some have given an evil report magnifying what the 1st Adam did while neglecting and dismissing what Jesus Christ, the last Adam accomplished. Many have simply have disregarded what Christ did.

Here is the Good report – the PERSON, Jesus Christ, the Living word came to earth as a human man He was the LAST ADAM who would totally nullify – MAKE VOID and completely set aside all that the first Adam did. Christ became the NEW HEAD of the entire human race. The Word became flesh.

At one time the whole human race was in the first Adam because he was once the head of mankind in that he once represented all mankind. Every single person was in him. No one was excluded. We were all in his seed. When he sinned, we all sinned in him.

Then God sent Jesus Christ as the Last Adam and then the whole human race was in Jesus Christ. He became the NEW head of mankind in that He now represented all mankind. Every single person was mow in Him. No one was excluded. We were all in His seed. When He obeyed, we all obeyed in Him.

That means that the whole of mankind was in Christ as much as they were once IN the First Adam. No one was excluded by what the first Adam did and no one was excluded by what Christ did. That is impossible.

The first Adam did effect all of mankind but Christ – the last Adam, nullified and MADE VOID all that 1st Adam did and then Christ re-effected the whole human race in the opposite direction,

Now what Adam did has NO EFFECT on any person. I do not have a sinful nature within me. There is no war taking place inside of me.

I AM NOT AN universalist and I not teaching that. You do need to believe that the PERSON of Christ - The Living Word is living, dwelling and abiding within you this very second.

Before you load your guns and shoot at me please take time to read the entire text from the Two Creations - Watchman Nee posted here.


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Vern

 2018/12/19 6:40Profile
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 Re: Many have simply have disregarded what Christ did.

Vern

If all are “in Christ” and Paul says there is now no condemnation for all who are in Christ, aren’t all therefore not condemned, that is saved? That sounds like universalism. How is it not?


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Robert

 2018/12/19 7:14Profile
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 Re:

It does not appear that you have read the entire text from the Two Creations - Watchman Nee posted here like I asked.

Here is the truth - God has already united you with Christ Jesus. That is your present reality.

1 Cor. 1:30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. NIV

God has united you with Christ Jesus. For our benefit God made him to be wisdom itself. Christ made us right with God; He made us pure and holy and He freed us from sin. NLT

Here is a section of the Watchman Nee post

How do we abide? `Of God are ye in Christ Jesus.' It was the work of God to put you there and He has done it. Now stay there! Do not be moved back onto your own ground. Never look at yourself as though you were not in Christ. Look at Christ and see yourself in Him. Abide in Him. Rest in the fact that God has put you in His Son, and live in the expectation that He will complete His work in you. It is for Him to make good the glorious promise that "sin shall not have dominion over you" (Rom. 6:14).


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Vern

 2018/12/19 7:53Profile
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 Re:

I would like to know from those who hold the "regeneration precedes faith" position, does a lost person need to hear the Word to be regenerated? If so, do they need to respond positively to the gospel message to be regenerated? Also, how does one know that they are regenerated prior to receiving faith? How much time can elapse between being regenerated and subsequent believing?

-Daniel

 2018/12/19 8:37Profile
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 Re:

Vern , I read the article. I’m asking the question that if every man is in Christ then are all no longer under condemnation so long as they continue to abide in him. If so, isn’t that universalism.


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Robert

 2018/12/19 8:44Profile





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