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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Why Do you call me Lord...

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TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

//Jesus Christ is LORD not because we in our 21st century minds have given him permission, approval, validation. Nonsense,//

Obviously true. But Jesus obviously stressed that his being Lord required certain responses.


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Todd

 2018/11/8 10:13Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1165
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:


Hi Todd: Yep, Jesus gave commands and expected them to be obeyed, this by reason of his Divine nature. Because of that nature, disobedience is sin, rebellion is sin and because of that, from a Throne of Judgment will he judge the nations and he will rule. Our Salvation is the benefit of such a Lordship, we do not have a Salvation with voting privileges, nor does unbelief have veto power.

We do not in any sense have a salvation predicated upon human will. There are myriads of religions out there that have a system based upon the human will cooperating with their gods to bring about some admixture of good and evil.

Christianity is the polar opposite of such paganism. Christianity derives its salvation directly from God's good grace to reveal his Son to them, give then faith and grace from in in-planted word of God and by that bring forth a new creation in Christ.

Everything else is a lie and part of the broad path leading to destruction.


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Marvin

 2018/11/8 11:19Profile
makrothumia
Member



Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 724
Texas

 Re:

Marvin,

Perhaps your omission was an oversight, but it is a very critical omission. For the “implanted” word must be “received”. The Greek word is δέχομαi, from the root family “to think.” The word only becomes implanted when it is “consciously considered and embraced.”

Furthermore, even before we δέχομαι the implanted word, James used an Aorist, Middle, Imperative to stress what must be removed first. The Aorist Middle is used when the writer wants to focus the attention upon the subject’s role in completing the verbal action.

Men are dynamically involved in conscious consideration and embracing of what God says. This is how the word becomes “implanted.”

Mak


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Alan and Dina Martin

 2018/11/8 12:05Profile
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1148


 Re: Why Do you call me Lord...


Todd’s subject:

“Why Do you call me Lord...”

“But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say? Whoever comes to Me, and hears My sayings and does them, I will show you whom he is like: He is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently against that house, and could not shake it, for it was founded on the rock.”
Luke 6:46-48

(Todd) “I have kind of a strange question:”

“What if someone does what Jesus says but does not call him Lord? Or, better, exclusively Lord? “

(me) I believe it is saying, it matters NOT what we say,... God knows the heart,.. He is Truth,.. He knows truth.
So for us to say / call Him ‘Lord, Lord’, knowing He is not Lord in our hearts and only saying that is where the problem lies.

(Could it be like , having a Jesus, (another jesus?),..but NOT The Word, .. NOT being filled / full of His Spirit,and led by His Spirit?...)

...They do not what I say,.. the doing of The Word,


1Kings 18:21,
“And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him.”
.....
1Kings 18:37,
“ Hear me, O LORD, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the LORD God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again.”
....
1Kings 18:39,
“ And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces: and they said, The LORD, he is the God; the LORD, he is the God.”

Now, Who is God ?, ..and Who is The Word?,.. and What is His Name?
.....and what Name has He given us , that are born of our new Father?

God , who is The Word, commanded His Word into the womb of The virgin, Mary, ...(Jesus’ Mother),.. so Jesus’ Father is The Word,... He speaks / spoke only His Father’s Words,... that came. ( His Words , “they are
Spirit,and they are Life”,...The Light (the enlightenment) of Life,...and The Spirit to do so, ),...

His Words that He speaks is God / Lord, .... The Lord God was here from everlasting, The Almighty.

So, great emphasis must be put on what He says,.. what comes out of His mouth, .. His Words, ... led by The Spirit of God.
...
Now we that are born again, have been given, His Name, (ie,..a new Name)...which is called’ The Word of God’

Jesus not only spoke it, He was, and lived, that Name, He was that Name.
So now , do we believe in His Name of Jesus? ...

So now, is the question you asked,
“ Why call me Lord, Lord, and do not what I say”

But did we not start out obeying Him ( He was Lord),..when we were first born again?
... at that time He was our Lord?,.. did we, after some time get side- tracked?,..
and did we become lord of our own lives? .. and if we then call Him Lord, Lord, He is really not our Lord?... Is that what Lk.6:46-48 is saying?

I find a interesting read,
Jude 11, and Numbers chapter 16

I am not always good at portraying what I am trying to say,.. The Lord bless you to make it out.

God bless,
——————♥️
elizabeth

 2018/11/8 12:39Profile
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1148


 Re:

Todd said,
“Jesus obviously stressed that his being Lord required certain responses.”

I agree Todd.

Now I would like to respond to Marvin’s thread,..

Marvin said,
“We do not in any sense have a salvation predicated upon human will. There are myriads of religions out there that have a system based upon the human will cooperating with their gods to bring about some admixture of good and evil.”

My thoughts will be concerning the word ‘salvation’

Heb.3:8-10,

Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
.......
Heb.3, continuing ....
v.


1 ¶ Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.
3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
7 ¶ Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10 “Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.”

11 “So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)”

12 ¶ “Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.”

13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called ‘To day’; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.”
.....
(Note: The Word ‘TODAY’,... , today is today, and tomorrow is then ‘today’,
And on and on,... through the Blood of Jesus we were originally ‘saved’,.. salvation,.. and every day , we are not to ‘ harden our hearts’, and not be able to hear His voice, ... in other words, He has come to ‘save us from our sins every day, which began when we first came to Jesus, and was born again of His Spirit,..

as told in Rom.25-26,
“Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins “THAT ARE PAST” that are past,” through the forbearance of God;”

26 To declare, I say, “AT THIS TIME” his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.“
.....
back to Heb.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;”

15 “While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.”

16 ¶” For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.”

17 “But with whom was he grieved forty years? was if t not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?”

18 “And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?”

19 “So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.”

I kindly submit this for your consideration,
————-♥️
elizabeth

 2018/11/8 13:22Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1953


 Re: Lord Lord

Lord Lord meaning I recently heard from Zac Poonen. The first time Lord means Jesus is Lord in their Knowledge or mind. They understood how Jesus alone is the way to life in their mind.

Second time calling Jesus Lord means they are also emotionally convinced. They are emotional about their association with Jesus.

But the Lord that Jesus expects is Lord of our hearts. For whom Jesus is king in their hearts not just in mind and emotions. So if we stop with mind and emotions we will be one of those standing outside..


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Sreeram

 2018/11/8 15:13Profile
Oracio
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Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

I do not see anywhere in Scripture that some are "made" willing to receive Christ. All throughout God's Word it is clearly implied that God has given all men and women the capacity to choose to either receive or reject Him (so many scriptures clearly imply this; sister Elibeth shared a few of those scriptures in her post, there are myriads more). Those who reject Christ will suffer the consequences of their choice, while those who freely choose to humbly acknowledge their desperate need for Him and receive Him will be blessed. That perspective seems to make the most sense of all of God's Word.

I think some of us would also do well to consider and study church history before and beyond Augustine. There we find that the early church vehemently defended the doctrine of a God-given free will against fatalistic Gnostics who prided themselves in supposedly being superior to others by their supposedly being unconditionally chosen and by their supposed secret knowledge.


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Oracio

 2018/11/8 23:08Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1165
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:



Hi Elizabeth:

Thanks for the response, I'd love to respond but there is nothing to respond to.

You see when quoting scripture texts it's pretty useless to do unless you did as Mak did and give clarification and interpretation on the various texts you quoted. In short, I have to respond to Mak's dekomai and it's importance to being born-again. I am forced to look at the greek and see if I errored or if the greek grammatical usage helps me. For that I must take a look.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to respond to you, but you are not anywhere in that post...I can draw a dozen implications but then how do I know such an implication see is equal to your reading of the text?

Take a portion of text and interpret it for me, then show me how that text refutes or brings in to question something I said...then I can respond thoughtfully to your post.


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Marvin

 2018/11/9 11:45Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1165
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:


Hi Oracio: A few things.

You may not see where people are 'made' or prepared, but there is sufficient examples and proof of God doing exactly that.

When you view the scriptures from the standpoint "Its all about me" of course all you see is
How I repented, I believe, I chose, I called, I prayed, I asked, I confessed, I sought, I turned, I submitted. So at the end of your reading you come away with "yea my decision was paramount in my salvation"

You said..." it is clearly implied that God has given all men and women the capacity to choose to either receive or reject Him"
No, he has not, and there is not a single text in scripture to validate that assertion.
And, no God does not offer salvation equally to all men. There have been multitudes of millions and millions who have never heard the gospel and died in their sins. Yet that gospel was plentiful in other countries. Their free will did nothing to secure them from an eternal hell. God hasn't changed and the gospel hasn't changed; yet God didn't so much as send a bible to them, or send an evangelist or bring a missionary. No, what was and is fully in God's capacity to do was not done...and is still being done to this very day.

So, not only does man need the gospel he needs God to make sure the gospel arrives...and even then when the gospel arrives no preacher worthy of the name believes "yea, they can believe any time they want". No, they don't, God must call in their hearts, reveal his word to their minds, there must be some kind of conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment.

Without God taking the initial steps to call a man, send the Spirit, reveal his word and convict of truth man's free will is as useless as can be. In fact he's worse than useless because he will not seek God, he turns aside to his own way, his feet are swift to run from God, his hands are lame to be lifted to God.

The mind will and intellect of a sinner has no capability to believe as God requires, it isn't until God steps in to 'make' the man willing in the day of his power does any man use that will to die to self and take up a cross.
As long as you preach cross-less gospel, sure find a church that suits your needs and helps your esteem in the community


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Marvin

 2018/11/9 14:21Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Hi Marvin, unfortunately right now I cannot fully reply to your post but hope to do so soon. I will only say that there seems to be some agreement between us based on how I understood your post, as well as some misunderstanding of my views on one or more points.


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Oracio

 2018/11/9 16:15Profile





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