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Discussion Forum : General Topics : I am a young earth creationist is there any other people

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TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

I do not believe in macro evolution- never have.

I am not stupid- I said I cut and pasted the table that happened to include amphibians etc.

Regardless you cannot explain how in 4500 years we got all the species we have today. There is ZERO evidence for the rapid post flood speciation that Ken Ham proposes. They reach that conclusion because they must, not because there is any evidence to support it.

Yeah, I go around fearing man every day. It’s my hobby!


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Todd

 2018/6/16 18:49Profile









 Re:

To reiterate Job 38:7 the angels were present at the earth's creation.

Though Ezekiel 28 is a prophecy against the king of Tyre it is a dual prophecy in that it describes Satan prior to his fall as being a cherub in Eden, the garden of God, with 9 of the 12 stones (in an Old Testament priest's garb) as his covering. There is also the mention of pipes & tabrets. Sounds like he was a worship leader until he was cast out for his pride & iniquity.

These time frames are tricky: the angels were created before the earth was made, but Satan fell after Eden was in place (day three of creation at the earliest).

 2018/6/16 18:56
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

https://biologos.org/blogs/archive/the-flood-not-global-barely-local-mostly-theological-pt-1

Make sure you read all the parts.


_________________
Todd

 2018/6/16 18:59Profile
drifter
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Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 1025
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

I'm sorry Todd, I wasn't trying to offend you. I was just suggesting that, in this particular area, you might be blinded because of men's opinions. Remember, "the fear of man brings a snare" (Proverbs 29:25). I am not perfect either, I have feet of clay; I think most of us have feared man and fallen short at some point in our christian walk.

Why is there zero evidence for the Ken Ham model? Because some secular scientist "debunked" it?


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Nigel Holland

 2018/6/16 19:00Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

//is a dual prophecy in that it describes Satan prior to his fall as being a cherub in Eden, the garden of God, with 9 of the 12 stones (in an Old Testament priest's garb) as his covering. There is also the mention of pipes & tabrets. Sounds like he was a worship leader until he was cast out for his pride & iniquity.//


You did not get this idea from the text itself. You got it from somebody who has imported those ideas into the text.


The text plainly says who it is about, never mentions satan or a devil, and is clearly using hyperbolic language to describe this literal person.


_________________
Todd

 2018/6/16 19:02Profile
drifter
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 1025
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

That article on the flood makes assumptions.

They seriously try to use Carbon 14 dating methods? Those are wildly inaccurate at best. You have to assume the past rate of decay is consistent with the present rate, and that you know how much there was to begin with. They know neither.

Look up the 'Lost Squadron'. "Seasonal Rings" might not be seasonal at all.


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Nigel Holland

 2018/6/16 19:17Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Jochbaptist, some OEC people believe the flood of 2 Peter 3:5-6 refers to a pre-Adamic flood, not the flood of Noah's day. They say that old flood wrecked the heavens, too, & coincided with Satan's fall.

They argue that God had to (re) separate earth's land from its waters in Genesis. I find it a bit of a stretch because the reader of 2 Peter would have to be "in the know" about a pre-Adamic creation for those verses to be read that way. The average reader would think of Noah's flood, and rightly so. Matthew 24 makes a clear reference to Noah's flood. If a pre-Adamic flood were far more cataclysmic to the heavens & the earth then why wouldn't the Bible clearly cite that?

Finis Dake in his annotated reference Bible posits such views (I do not own a copy, but perused it many years ago).

Here's a question for the group: where would you place the fall of Satan in regards to the six days of creation? Before or during? It is interesting that sin & death came into the world through Adam, not the serpent ("Nachash" in Hebrew, or "bright, shining one").



Exodus 20:11 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

I have perused Dakes notes as well. He was a big proponent of a pre-adamic race (this is how he explained dinosaurs) and a pre-adamic flood. But it seems to me that an earth and a heavens, left over from a pre-adamic civilization, would directly contradict Exodus 20:11, since the very water and earth are part of the creation that is clearly stated to have been made in six days. Dake's ideas are based on much speculation and, in my opinion, some poor Bible interpretation. Some of the ideas violate clearly stated scripture.

I believe that the account given in Ezekiel 28 (which Dake placed in the pre-adamic world) is speaking of Lucifer and that he was in the garden of eden as the anointed cherub. But he found in man something that he wanted for himself. I believe his fall happened at the same time as man's fall. I believe he was jealous of man, wanted the authority over the earth that man was given, and wanted the praise of man that God was receiving. I believe he hatched the plot, and then committed the sin by deceiving man, and in that way he fell, along with man. Just my opinion, but it seems to make a lot of sense scripturally.


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Travis

 2018/6/16 19:22Profile
twayneb
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Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Then how do you explain the very great degree of speciation of animals, insects birds etc in the 4000 years since the flood?



Speciation can by very rapid depending on the animal in question. We breed dogs to have certain traits, and we sometimes hear of a new breed that has been developed. This breeding process is speciation in action, and in the case of dog or cattle breeds, directed by humans. Given geographical separation and environmental factors (for example, dogs with short hair not surviving after birth in the arctic), sorting of genetic information leading to new species is pretty rapid actually.


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Travis

 2018/6/16 19:27Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:




I read this blog. There is one main problem that I find with it. It says the opposite of what scripture clearly says. Therefore, the author is mistaken. Very intelligent and well educated without a doubt, but totally wrong on his one major premise. The Bible states the flood was global.


_________________
Travis

 2018/6/16 19:36Profile









 Re:

Todd, when I read about the leviathan in Job the description goes from being about some sort of sea monster into an allegory about the devil himself ("the only creature made without fear" & "the king over all the sons of pride," for instance). Leviathan in Hebrew means "one spirally wound" like a serpent.

 2018/6/16 20:02





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