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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Pope Francis says there is no hell?

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savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 1964


 Re: shock treatment




Todd,

You stated,

"...there is actually strong biblical support for three views of hell."

That is impossible!

It's possible to come to the conclusion that there is, but it's impossible for that to be true.

 2018/4/5 16:02Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5313
NC, USA

 Re:

Well, obviously all three cannot be true. But there is definitely good support for all three if a person is willing to study it without preconceived notions.

This certainly is not the only area where divergent camps claim (quite adequately) that scripture supports their view to the exclusion of the other. I can think of two such areas right quick.

The correct and reasonable response to these dilemmas is to say "I can see why you hold that position, and the scriptures you cite do seem to support your position." Then depending on the person they will either explain why they disagree without getting personal, or swallow their pride and maybe take a further look at what the scriptures say. Over time they may or may not change their position.

The incorrect and unreasonable response is: "You are a heretic, reprobate, or sheep in wolf's clothing because your interpretation does not agree with mine."


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Todd

 2018/4/5 17:36Profile
drifter
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 639
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

Only the Holy Spirit can show a person the reality of hell. If we use our own reasoning, or tout "higher learning" (like Fudge does), we invariably come to wrong conclusions.

Jesus warned of hell, so it stands to reason that Paul also warned of it. He may have not used the word "hell", but he certainly warned of God's wrath.

Todd, I don't know you personally. I don't know your state before God. All I know is that all through history, men anointed of God have warned sinners about hell, and mighty revivals followed. False prophets have always said "Don't worry, you'll escape judgment; ye shall not surely die. Hell isn't real." Which category do you fall into? Don't you find it odd that so many cults deny hell?

And for everyone on here, please, get on your knees before God and ask Him to show you the plain, undeniable reality of hell. You only miss it if you want to, if you purposely twist scriptures. When I read scripture I hear a loud trumpet, a holy God warning sinners "Hell is real. My Son spoke of it, the prophets spoke of it, My servants all through history spoke of it. Run from this awful fate into the arms of Jesus." I think if you can't see this, you have lost sight of God's heart; something is wrong.


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Nigel Holland

 2018/4/5 20:42Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5313
NC, USA

 Re:

We haven’t even got into the discussion about what Jesus meant when he used the word “hell” (of course he did not use that word at all, but rather a word translated that way for some unknown reason).

Also- I am not sure what you mean when you say the prophets warned of hell. I will grant that Hades or Sheol has been mistranslated as “hell” in some Bible versions, but it is doubtless a mistranslation.

ADD: I wanted to add that if a person’s motivation for “being saved” is avoiding hell, he is still a self-centered person who has not truly repented.

Salvation is for God’s glory, not ours. Rebel’s have not recognized that there is one true King, one Jesus, to whom they must bow and submit, forsaking all rights to themselves and all other allegiances. If they are still thinking of how this “salvation” will benefit them they have not repented. Paul said he was was willing to be accursed for the sake of his brethren; many today “respond” to a gospel message to protect themselves from being accursed. A bad motive in my mind means there has been no repentance.


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Todd

 2018/4/6 7:17Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 619
Australia

 Re:


Question: Will we pray for ALL men to be saved?


Ezek. 22:30-31 – I searched for a man among them who would build up the wall and stand in the gap before Me for the land, so that I would not destroy it; but I found no one.

Isa. 59:16 -- And He saw that there was no man, And was astonished that there was no one to intercede;

Isa. 53:12 -- Yet He Himself bore the sin of many, And interceded for the transgressors.

Luke 23:34 -- But Jesus was saying, "Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing."

Ps. 65:2 -- O You who hear prayer, To You all men come.

Ps. 145:21 -- My mouth will speak the praise of the LORD, And all flesh will bless His holy name forever and ever.


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Jade

 2018/4/6 10:40Profile
noone
Member



Joined: 2008/3/17
Posts: 75
United States

 Re:

Thank you Todd for all of your posts. There seems to be such an inadequacy of people really hearing what you are saying. What I am hearing is that you are not claiming that you hold the whole truth and nothing but the truth. But that tradition/religion keeps us in a bubble and we think that there is no other beliefs than our own.
Exploration is key to learning what you truly believe, but tradition and religion want to prohibit people from even reading other beliefs that don't fit into their own theological statement. Also, that there could be other ways that God decides to handle things. Which is His right. I truly hope that hell is not eternal, but I really don't know.


I was definitely raised on turn or burn theology. I readily admit I came to Christ strictly to avoid hell. The
"beginning" of wisdom is fear and it does serve a purpose, but it is incomplete imo because it is only the beginning of wisdom. I appreciate it when a person is willing to truly read and give time and consideration to other interpretations.

Also, to the ones that keep saying how do you share your beliefs... what do you say.... "If you don't repent you will just vanish for all eternity." or "what's the point if you can't preach CONSCIOUS AWARENESS OF ETERNAL PUNISHMENT AND TORMENT! Or "what's the point of preaching repentance if there is no punishment for sin?" WOW!! Didn't Paul say it was God's kindness that leads to repentance, as well as they will know you are Christ's because of your love one for another and a million other verses about the love of God? And how sin brings DEATH. I dare say that the motivation of SURRENDER to Jesus, the process of TURNING FROM sin, the process of being CONFORMED to His image, the process of truly being born again, the process of loving others as He loved, the process of walking in a deep revelation knowledge of Him and HIS LOVE FOR US should be the motivation of wanting to spend eternity with THE ONE WHO LOVES ME! To bring GLORY TO HIS NAME ONLY!! TO WORSHIP HIM! FOR THE SAKE OF HIS NAME BEING GLORIFIED AS THE GREAT I AM and THE KING OF KINGS and the thought of NOT spending eternity(wherever that might me) with THE ONE WHO LOVES ME AND CREATED ME is a tormented thought. Might I propose that many believers have yet to walk in an ever deepening revelation of the burning and intense love of God, so therefore they cannot fathom the gospel-GOOD NEWS- without the fear motivation? All I know is that fear will keep you for a bit, but it will never bring about TRUE CHANGE in the depths of one's heart. Just doing something out of fear is not walking as a new creation IN THE SPIRIT OF GOD.

Now, do I believe in eternal hell... honestly I don't know. I still tend to believe that it is eternal and I definitely do not speak of my thoughts on this matter to just anyone.. only a few trusted people will I have this conversation with. But I definitely speak of coming to Christ with the above mentioned motivations. I pray for a deep revelation of God's love to bring them to Christ to be known as HIS BELOVED. blessings!!


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Tina

 2018/4/6 14:52Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5313
NC, USA

 Re:

Thank you Tina for your post - you definitely understand where I am coming from.

Well said!


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Todd

 2018/4/6 19:20Profile
drifter
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Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 639
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

I have never claimed one should seek salvation solely because he is afraid of hell. People repent when they are convicted by the Holy Spirit.

On that note, the Holy Spirit's job is to convict us of sin, righteousness and judgment to come. I firmly believe the Holy Spirit will faithfully warn us that there is a judgment coming, and everyone who rejects the Son of God will suffer the vengeance of eternal fire (Jude 1:7). People can go ahead and superimpose their own ideas onto crystal clear verses like this, "well, you see, the fire burns forever but the people don't" or some other theological gymnastics, but I'll take God at His Word. I'll get my theology from the Bible and not Jehovah's Witnesses or some other cult, thank you very much.


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Nigel Holland

 2018/4/6 22:51Profile
drifter
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 639
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

"We need a baptism of old fashioned hell fire preaching, I'm sure of that."
-Leonard Ravenhill


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Nigel Holland

 2018/4/6 23:15Profile
drifter
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 639
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

"You cannot find me a generation of preachers that hasn't had a revival at some time, and one of the main theological points was preaching on hell."
-Leonard Ravenhill


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Nigel Holland

 2018/4/6 23:24Profile





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