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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Pope Francis says there is no hell?

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drifter
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Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 639
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

"You can bet your Bible that whenever someone believes false doctrine it's because they need to believe that false doctrine to have false peace."
-Keith Green


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Nigel Holland

 2018/4/4 20:43Profile
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 1964


 Re: off the track bet






"You can bet your Bible..."


I heard of the Bible belt, but this is the first time I've heard of the Bible bet!


For all we know, this god of whom is being spoken of may very well change his mind about hell anyway. Since he don't even know the future, he may decide that all this wasn't such a good idea after all. Things just ain't turning out the way he'd planned. The future must be quite a foreboding thought to him.

But...then again...we're supposed to trust in him with all our heart. Sure hope he can figure things out, and do better this time. I guess he will just have to see what we humans do and go from there and see what happens.

Can't you just feel the tension!

I'm voting for him! All in favor say "I"

 2018/4/4 21:22Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5313
NC, USA

 Re:

Nigel- if you think threatening hell was a focus of Paul’s preaching you are sadly mistaken.


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Todd

 2018/4/4 22:10Profile
drifter
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 639
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

Not threatening hell, warning sinners in love of eternal consequences. I would never point a condescending finger at a lost person and shout at them they are going to hell; I warn them with love and brokenness about their destiny if they keep rejecting God's love.

Big, big difference.


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Nigel Holland

 2018/4/4 22:49Profile
drifter
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 639
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above..."
Exodus 20:4

Seems to me a lot of the time people have an image of God that bears no resemblance to who He is. Edward Fudge, for example, said telling people that God sends people to hell for eternity would "turn sinners off" and make them atheists. I guess tell that to Charles Finney or D. L. Moody. I bet Fudge had way more converts than them...


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Nigel Holland

 2018/4/4 23:14Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5313
NC, USA

 Re:

Nigel- I guess my point is that Paul never uses the word “hell” one time- not in the book of Acts and not in any of his epistles. Not one time! How could he be so negligent as to omit such a drastic and dire part of the gospel message?

“Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God” (Acts 20:26,27



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Todd

 2018/4/5 9:14Profile
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 1964


 Re: negligent?




Todd,

Re: Paul -

You say, "How could he be so negligent..."

He wasn't. Have you not read? In the lost books of the disciples it is written how Paul was enlightened when he came across a book written by the great great great great great great great and greater yet, grandson of Ed Fudge.

Not only did he come across that book, but another. Written by the great great great great great great great and greater yet, grandson of Clark Pinnock. So, he wasn't negligent at all. He understood that god wasn't sure if a hell would be necessary in the future. So, not to offend anyone he figured that it would be best to wait and see what the gentiles might do, since god was hoping that the future might go better than the past.

Or, it might also have been that it took god by surprise when he got wind of what Paul had omitted on the subject of hell.

Yet, Jesus went ahead and said these words,

“And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. “But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who after He has killed has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him! Luke 12:4,5

It may be that he didn't know that in the future there'd be no hell required!

You can thank Pinnock and Fudge for coming along and clearing these things up.



It is appointed to men once to die, and after this, judgment. Heb. 9:27

They've each kept their appointment!

 2018/4/5 10:41Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5313
NC, USA

 Re:

Regardless, I stand by my statement.

And in case anyone is confused, my statement “how could he [Paul] be so negligent” was rhetorical.


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Todd

 2018/4/5 11:05Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3392
East TN (for now)

 Re: Pope Francis says there is no hell?


A small part of an article titled "If Hell is Real," from a popular reconciliation-of-all web site:

//////////////////////////

If Hell is real how could the Apostle Paul (who was especially commissioned by God to preach the gospel to the nations) say that he had declared the entire counsel of God (Acts 20:27), when indeed he never warned of "Hell" in any of his letters? If Hell is real, wouldn't Paul, of all people, warn of it repeatedly?

If Hell is real, the sin/death of Adam has had a far more powerful effect on the world than the resurrection life of Christ! And yet Paul declares in Romans 5 that Christ's victory is far greater than Adam's transgression! Listen to Paul's confidence in the work of Christ! If Paul believed in eternal hell for the majority of men, how could he write the following verses?

".Just as the result of one trespass (Adam's) was condemnation for all men , so also the result of one act of righteousness (Christ's) was justification that brings life for all men . For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. ( Romans 5:18,19).

"Since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive." (1 Cor. 15:22)

"For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe" (1 Timothy 4;10).

(The above verses are just a few of the many verses where Paul writes of a pre-eminent Christ that far transcends the traditional Christian view. This article is full of many more New Testament references by Paul that display his views of the Christ triumphant, unlimited, all-powerful, all-conquering, and victorious).

If Hell is real, why is it that the only time Paul even mentioned "Hell" in any of his epistles, was declare the triumph of Christ over it? (1 Corinthians 15:55). The word "Grave" in the passage is the Greek word "Hades."

If Hell is real, why is it not mentioned once in the book of Acts in any the evangelistic sermons that were recorded by the early Apostles?

If Hell is real why do some of the best Bible scholars and Bible teachers say it is not in the Greek or Hebrew text? (William Barclay, John A.T. Robinson, Lightfoot, Westcott, F.W. Farrar, Marvin Vincent, etc.)

If Hell is real, why does the word itself come from the Teutonic "Hele" (goddess of the underworld "Hell" of northern Europe ). The description of this ancient mythological place has very little resemblance anymore to the modern Christian image of Hell. See any encyclopedia or dictionary for the origin of the word.
////////////////////////////////

Can we who believe in eternal punishment answer these questions Biblically or are we fighting a losing battle? (I'm at work and this is all I had to time to post)


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Lisa

 2018/4/5 14:36Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5313
NC, USA

 Re:

Hey Lysa-

Of course a traditionalist can answer biblically. That is all I have been saying- there is actually strong biblical support for three views of hell.

The reason folks don’t want to acknowledge that there is biblical support for all three is because it is too much of a shock to their system and what they have always been taught and believed.


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Todd

 2018/4/5 14:44Profile





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