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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Pope Francis says there is no hell?

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drifter
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Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 639
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

No Todd, I am not bullying at all. I just take my Bible seriously, so seriously, in fact, that I will warn people about judgment and not say, "don't worry, hell is not forever, you can burn off your sins after a few million years."

I actually do like to research other opinions, so I will check out the authors you mentioned. However, I believe what Jesus said about hell being eternal, that is the straightforward reading of scripture.

There are certain aspects of Christian doctrine that are non negotiable, hell being one of them.

And I would say to everyone, if you are in a church that says hell is not real or that downplays it, run for your life. Get out of that church as fast as you can.


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Nigel Holland

 2018/3/30 13:02Profile
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5313
NC, USA

 Re:

//Am I having an out of body experience, or, are we really debating if there is a hell or not here?//

No debate here, Bill. It is a topic worthy of discussion but it will not happen here.


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Todd

 2018/3/30 14:17Profile
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Joined: 2012/2/8
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NC, USA

 Re:

//I actually do like to research other opinions, so I will check out the authors you mentioned. //

A fairly short paper by Edward Fudge is here:

https://edwardfudge.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/JETS_final_end_wicked.pdf


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Todd

 2018/3/30 14:19Profile
drifter
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 639
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

I did read some of the Edward Fudge article, and I found nothing to sway me from what the Bible says about hell. I think people using fleshly reasoning and not spiritual discernment come to these conclusions. I believe this is a fundamental error in understanding God's character. When you talk to sinners about their souls, what do you tell them? "Well, you should repent and accept Jesus, but if you don't, you'll just burn for awhile and then sleep forever"? What kind of incentive is that? It guts the gospel.


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Nigel Holland

 2018/3/30 16:54Profile
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5313
NC, USA

 Re:

His whole article is a discussion on what the biblical passages say about hell, and you make the comment "I found nothing to sway me from what the Bible says about hell."

You don't have to be swayed, but when the entire article is devoted to talking about the various biblical passages that talk about hell, your statement is non-sensical. This is what I find so frustrating when discussing this topic. Rather than address specific points you disagree with, you make a misleading statement that makes it sound like he wasn't citing the Bible throughout the entire article.


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Todd

 2018/3/30 18:06Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2730
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Pope Francis says there is no hell?

It seems absurd to even debate the existence of an eternal hell in the light of Christ's words about hell. Let us boldly maintain that there is a hell and plead with people to flee from it before it's too late.

"knowing the terror of the Lord", the worm, and the fire, let us "persuade men" (2Cor 5:11).

It was J.C. Ryle that said, "it is not possible to say too much about Christ. But it is quite possible to say too little about hell."

As a side note; I watched the movie "I Can Only Imagine" today and one of the previews was about an upcoming movie about the pope. There was much ecumenical jargon about the need of the world uniting (supposedly under the pope's leadership). Very strange days we are living in and yet very exciting days because the Lord's return is near.

In Christ,


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Ron Halverson

 2018/3/30 18:23Profile









 Re:

Then how do you explain the following verse,

~~~ "And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
~~~ Mat. 25:46

Jesus is telling in the passages preceding the above verse that the sheep will enter into eternal life. But the goats will enter into eternal punishment.

If one is going to argue that the goats in hell will not experience eternal punishment. But it will be temporal. Then likewise one would have to argue that the sheep will not experience eternal life. But that too will be temporal.

Such reasoning is absurd against the light of scripture.

Blaine

 2018/3/30 19:25









 Re:

Rev. 22:5

Night will be no more; people will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, because the Lord God will give them light, and they will reign forever and ever.

Rev. 14:9-11

And another, a third angel, followed them and spoke with a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,  he will also drink the wine of God’s wrath, which is poured full strength into the cup of his anger.T)" data-cr="#cen-CSB-30921T" style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 0.625em; position: relative; vertical-align: top; top: 0px;"> He will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the sight of the holy angels and in the sight of the Lamb,  and the smoke of their torment will go up forever and ever.V)" data-cr="#cen-CSB-30922V" style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 0.625em; position: relative; vertical-align: top; top: 0px;"> There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or anyone who receives the mark X)" data-cr="#cen-CSB-30922X" style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 0.625em; position: relative; vertical-align: top; top: 0px; font-size: 0.625em;">of its name. 



Revelation 22:5 says the saints will reign forever and ever with Christ. This would infer eternality.

Revelation 14:9-11 says those who receive the mark of the beast and worships him will experience the wrath of God by being tormented with fire and sulpher forever and ever. This implies eternality.

Again if one argues that hell is not eternal. That one is going to have to argue that heaven is not eternal. You can't have language such as forever and ever being used without explaining both away to support a temporal view of hell.

If forever and ever means one is going to reign eternalky with Christ.  Then forever and ever will also have to mean that one will be punished eternally apart from Christ.

At least this seems to be the clear teaching of scripture.  The New Testament does teach eternal life with Christ. Likewise and New Testament teaches eternal punishment away from Christ. Eternal meaning forever and ever.

Blaine

 2018/3/30 20:02
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5313
NC, USA

 Re:

Bear if you read the article I linked below he addresses all those scriptures.


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Todd

 2018/3/30 20:28Profile









 Re:

Todd

In Matthew 25:46 the goats go into "eternal" punishment. The sheep go into "eternal" life.

The word "eternal" means..

•••Lasting or existing forever; without end or beginning.•••

The scriptures and the definition are straightforward. If you say that eternal life is lasting or existing forever. If you say that eternal life is without end or beginning. Then it would stand to reason that eternal punishment is lasting or existing forever. Eternal punishment is without end or beginning.

Again if you're saying that eternal punishment is temporal or temporary. Then you're going to have to say that eternal life is temporal or temporary.

You cannot reason one way and then another way. You cannot say eternal life is without end. And then say eternal punisment is tempirial. God's word is not written that way.

This aeems pretty straight forward.

Blaine

 2018/3/30 23:43





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