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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Sin

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Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1079
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:


Hi Jade:

This is the great thing about discussion boards like this, we don't always come to the same conclusions, but we did open the scriptures, pray, inquire, read, think and explain ourselves to one another, that is a good thing and beneficial to us both.

It is a great benefit to me when someone challenges or disagrees with me and helps me to work through my own thoughts on the subject. For that Jade, Iam very appreciative.
Secondly I got a chance to interact with you, for that I count it a joy and thank God for it.


_________________
Marvin

 2018/1/23 16:00Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1079
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:


Hi Diane:

I think the stalemate entails the conclusion Jade and I have come to, we disagree as to the real 'nature' of the tree (I think)Where Jade understand the tree to be inherently a tree that will corrupt once eaten.
I view the tree as inherently good, but Adam and Eve could not partake of it without a change of nature in themselves first; henceforth the tree now serves to open their eyes to that change of nature. A 'good' tree did its work to expose their sin. A tree of human wisdom ( by inference) would not have had that effect, I would assume it would justify their choice ( as all human wisdom does)

But this is the difficulty with scripture silence as to the explicit nature of the tree, we can only infer various things as we understand scripture's on-going revelation of what the Law does, or human wisdom, or what Grace does.

I personally have not read anything postulated about the subject that is not an inference from other texts (especially my own). Ive read the entire thread since its OP. The discussion has been good, but I don't think anyone else wants to tackle the subject beyond what has already been presented.


_________________
Marvin

 2018/1/23 16:19Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 627
Australia

 Re:


I said:
“Rest is resting from our own works to attain to the glory of God. Rest is resting in our Lord Jesus Christ. Christ in us is our hope of glory.”

Diane said:
“God’s Rest is freedom [of the conscious] from the slavery of works as a means to absolve guilt, to earn the way back to God/grace/salvation/divine absolution, etc.
“It’s the ‘Sabbath rest’ = grace through Christ…. a cleaned heart ….”


Yes, Diane, what you said is included in what I said.


Grace for redemption. Grace for righteousness. Grace for holiness. Grace for a heavenly life in Christ. Grace for the riches and the fullness of God in Christ in us.




Ps. 87:7 -- All my springs are in you


Ps. 36:7-9 --
How precious is Your lovingkindness, O God!
And the children of men take refuge in the shadow of Your wings.
They drink their fill of the abundance of Your house;
And You give them to drink of the river of Your delights.
For with You is the fountain of life;
In Your light we see light.


Eph. 3:19 -- ……that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God.


Eph. 3:20-21 -- Now to Him who is able to do far more abundantly beyond all that we ask or think, according to the power that works within us, to Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations forever and ever. Amen.



_________________
Jade

 2018/1/24 6:52Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 627
Australia

 Re:



Thanks, Marvin.


This thread has been beneficial to me.

Thanks all for your input.




_________________
Jade

 2018/1/24 6:55Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Quote:
I personally have not read anything postulated about the subject that is not an inference from other texts


I’ve heard that any interpretation of a text must be well supported through other texts and it must corroborate with the overall narrative of scripture. I’d say that this thread has done just that.

Someday it may be worth discussing the use of imagery in scripture as a means of conveying spiritual realities. I hate to admit how long I had no idea what that “tree” was – other than a forbidden food product.

Perhaps someday there can be a discussion on the experience of shame, and how that drives human behaviour … and how grace covers shame.


So thank you Marvin, Jade, and others!! You got me thinking!


_________________
Diane

 2018/1/24 9:38Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1079
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:


Diane's post.

Quote:

just back up one step in the ladder ...


What a brilliant idea, Marvin! There we see the origin of sin.


Quote:

Who wanted to kick off the grace vs law problems with mankind? Satan.

So then, legalism fell into our nature back in the garden – and that’s what poisons our “offerings” , our self-righteous morality. Hey – We’d better not point fingers at the “legalists” because we all have a bit of that original fruit stuck in our teeth!


Quote:

the law has nothing to offer but the opening of your eyes to what you truly are...and for Adam and Eve, it was nakedness then shame then hiding


So true! If you’ve lived in a religious culture where legalism rules strongly, you’ve noticed the effects of shame , the ungodly “cover-ups” pride, comparing, better-than-them- attitudes, guilt trips, unending rules, controllers, toxic shame, striving to win approval, perfectionism, pleasers, condemners, denials.. mental health issues, broken relationships… .

… sounds like our society!!


Quote:

This has been my contention...Adam and Eve did not need the Tree of good and evil or any of its fruit, their state was already everything that Satan said they needed.


No wonder the serpent began his approach with Eve by getting her to assume that God was a mean miser. She was the first legalist. God was not the one who said: “you must not TOUCH it ….” Gen. 3:3 Satan got her thinking that way.


Quote:

Faith RESTS in God’s GRACE.


Those are fantastic verses, Jade. Thanks for posting. They prove that rest is really a freed conscious – freedom from the self-imposed slavery, trying to cover our shame with our own never-ending strivings.


_________________
Diane


That one post alone contains the seed-bed for a week of sermons on the exposing of the origin of sin and shame and how in Christ there is deliverance for it all.

Any direction you want to go Diane will be a good one.
God grant us grace to see and obey what is revealed to us.


_________________
Marvin

 2018/1/24 16:06Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Quote:
the seed-bed for a week of sermons on the exposing of the origin of sin and shame and how in Christ there is deliverance for it all.


Well for me that series of “sermons” lasted ten years. It was through a long debilitating illness that I discovered just how much I was depending on my works. When it was all stripped from me I felt utterly exposed in shame, unable to cover it myself. It’s a long theological story: “Finding God’s Rest”.

I had a thought about that tree – in the middle of the night:
Quote:
… the stalemate … Where Jade understand the tree to be inherently a tree that will corrupt once eaten, I view the tree as inherently good,



How’s this for overcoming the stalemate: Everything in the garden was good, including the tree. But it was not fruit for humans. It was (is) very bad for the human constitution.

The tree signifies boundaries: Who’s God and who’s not God.

Let’s admit: We all inherently want to be God, because that fruit is lodged in our spiritual digestion system. Much of life is a journey to the discovery that we are not God: No, we can’t run the universe. No we can’t control people. No we can’t have what we want. Two year olds must learn that they are not God – or they become monsters.




_________________
Diane

 2018/1/25 9:23Profile





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