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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Is Turning from Sin Necessary for Salvation?

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yuehan
Member



Joined: 2011/6/15
Posts: 562


 Re: Is Turning from Sin Necessary for Salvation?

Hi Oracio,

It's a great question, and I believe this is one of the most urgent issues which needs to be resolved by the Christian community. The entire gospel hinges on it - we must get it right. I'll say from the outset that I appreciate TMK's post.

We know that the word "repentance" is tied to believing the gospel. This was the core message of Jesus' ministry, summarized in Mark 1:15 - "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel."

So what does "repentance" mean, and what should we repent from? Does it merely mean "turning from sins", as assumed in the thread's title? If so, in which new direction should we to turn to?

Note that in Hebrews 6:1-2, where the fundamental, basic principles of the Christian faith are listed - the phrase used is "repentance from dead works and of faith toward God". It is not "repentance from sins", but a repentance which encompasses repenting from "good works" which were really "dead works".


Suppose that "repentance" means "forsaking all your sins" (which I do not believe is the biblical meaning). Let me provoke you with some questions:

1. Have you sinned recently? Have you lusted? Exhibited self-righteousness? Experienced spiritual pride? Been unloving towards others? (sins which are not uncommon on this forum...)

2. If the answer is yes, then that shows you have failed to forsake your sins. Whatever your intentions, you have failed to "repent" (going by that spurious definition).

3. As you have not "repented" of your sins, you are not saved.

4. Given another year, do you think you would be able to forsake those sins listed in the first question - and thus finally "repenting"?

5. If one year is not sufficient, how many years do you think it will take for you to clean yourself up, to finally "repent" and qualify for God's salvation?

Do you see where this line of logic is going?

What do you think?


 2017/9/29 12:26Profile
yuehan
Member



Joined: 2011/6/15
Posts: 562


 Re:

This testimony, which belongs to Eli Brayley, is a beautiful illustration of (i) the biblical meaning of repentance; v.s. (ii) "stop sinning" / "forsake all your sins":

http://www.timothyministry.com/2010/05/about-eli.html

I encourage everyone to read it (if short on time, read the sections "Zeal Without Knowledge" and "Peace with God"). God did a great work in his life.


 2017/9/29 12:43Profile









 Then, why Jesus Christ came on earth to save us from?

"Brethren, it is taught by some that turning from sin is not necessary for salvation, that only believing in Christ is necessary."

Jesus Christ come to save us... to save us from sins, if the teaching turning from sin is not necessary for salvation, then why Jesus Christ came on earth to save us from?

"...that only believing in Christ is necessary."
Even Buddhist, Muslim believe in Jesus Christ so they are saved too?

Many people are going to Hell believing this kind of garbage recycle Gospel...

~ Matthew 1:21

 2017/9/29 17:16
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re: Then, why Jesus Christ came on earth to save us from?

At what point does the HS enter a person? I would think that it must happen before a person stops sinning, otherwise sinning will not stop.


_________________
Todd

 2017/9/29 17:20Profile









 who will set me free from the body of this death?

"Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin."

~ Romans 7:24-25


Is there a perfect sinless life? But surely we should "strive" for holiness...
~ 1 Peter 1:16

 2017/9/29 17:28
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2850
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
At what point does the HS enter a person? I would think that it must happen before a person stops sinning, otherwise sinning will not stop.



This implies that it is not possible to obey God before receiving the Holy Spirit.

The Bible states the requirements for receiving God's Spirit: "Then Peter said to them, ‘Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit'" (Acts 2:38). So we have two basic requirements to receive His Spirit: 1) repentance and 2) faith in the sacrifice of Christ. (Baptism is an outward confession of this faith in Christ's sacrifice.)

What is repentance? Repentance is a deep and genuine feeling of remorse over having committed sins against God. It is accompanied by an urgent desire to make the necessary changes in our life so we avoid committing the same sins again. A truly repentant person will immediately begin striving to obey God. Upon seeing repentance and faith God gives the Holy Spirit.

In Christ,


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2017/9/29 19:20Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

Ron I agree with your definition of repentance. That is why it is not necessary to ACTUALLY STOP sinning before being saved. Those that believed Peters sermon were baptized that very day. There was no time for them to stop all their sinning before that. What changed was their mind and heart.


_________________
Todd

 2017/9/29 20:04Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Todd, it seems you and a few others here may be misunderstanding what I mean by "turning from sin." I do not mean a mere outward turning from sin. Biblical repentance begins as an inward turning, a change of mind and heart regarding God, sin and self. And it results in, and is manifested by an outward transformation of conduct. The thief on the cross did not get a chance to manifest his repentance much outwardly (only a small bit). But had he lived longer it would have been inevitable and evident in his conduct. And again, it's not about sinless perfectionism.


_________________
Oracio

 2017/9/29 23:17Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

O- I agree 100% with what you wrote.


_________________
Todd

 2017/9/30 0:18Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Good to hear we agree Todd.


_________________
Oracio

 2017/9/30 1:19Profile





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