SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Inspiration from Revelation

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 Next Page )
PosterThread
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5390
NC, USA

 Re: Revelation 7:9 - The lamb

It makes me think of the parable that Nathan told David after his sin with Bathsheba.

In his sermon "Julius Caesar vs Jesus Christ- a study of two deaths" (I think this is the one) Art Katz graphically describes the sacrifice process and talks about how we have lost the seriousness of sin.


_________________
Todd

 2017/5/1 12:10Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7472
Mississippi

 Re:

QUOTE:
" talks about how we have lost the seriousness of sin."

This is the sense I get as well. For me, if I could grasp this more fully I could understand it better.

Seeing a pet slaughtered, forcing to eat this meat, feeling the emotional pain in witnessing this process should give one a sense of how God endured this pain just to redeem mankind. And then Bro. Paul tells us if we sin willfully we crucify Him afresh. Now, how awful is that? I suspect if a body can begin to comprehend the seriousness of Jesus' physical pain that he endured on the cross we may take our walk with the LORD more seriously and not rely on a few words said "way back then..."

Sandra


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2017/5/2 10:47Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7472
Mississippi

 Revelation 7:14-16 NASB

Revelation 7:13-16 NASB

13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?”

14 I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 “For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them.

16 “They will hunger no longer, nor thirst anymore; nor will the sun beat down on them, nor any heat;

As I looked at these verses, wondering if it is time to move on to the next chapter I was impressed by the suffering aspect of these redeemed.

These saints were those who survived great tribulation. They persisted, they did not bend, they did not bow. They were those that considered it an honor to suffer for the sake of Christ. The suffered in the worse sorts of ways, some to horrible to describe. (And I wonder how they were able to do so? Did the Holy Spirit intervene in their mind and body to enable them to do so?)

Suffering. We in the US know little to nothing of beatings, deprivation, imprisonment by the local authorities because of our faith. There are incidences of people's occupation destroyed because of their adherence to Biblical principles but we do not see any widespread persecution per se here - yet.

Then I got to wondering "who are our enemies? the people that would love to destroy our faith/obedience to Christ?" Are they always the secular, the atheist, the Islam terrorist? Or, are they people who have apostatized and work to persuade us to do likewise? Can we identify them? If so, how is one to relate to them?

Jesus tells us to love our enemies, give what they need or demand. But scripture also teaches one should separate himself from those that work to draw us away from Him.

Suffering. In the flesh. I suspect there is something in this type of suffering that has a way of cleansing one from the lusts of the flesh.
IPeter 4:1,2: "Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin.

2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

And the reward for enduring?
1. Are before the throne of God
2. No hunger
3. No thirst
4. No heat.
5. God wipes the tears from their eyes. (Now, how wonderful would that be to have God take you into his arms and wipe your tears?)

Suffering for God's sake. I see God just admiring these people, loving them....

Sandra


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2017/5/3 12:15Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7472
Mississippi

  Revelation 8:1-5 NASB

Revelation 8:1,2: NASB
1 When the Lamb broke the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.

2 And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them.

3 Another angel came and stood at the altar, holding a golden censer; and much incense was given to him, so that he might add it to the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar which was before the throne.

4 And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, went up before God out of the angel’s hand.

5 Then the angel took the censer and filled it with the fire of the altar, and threw it to the earth; and there followed peals of thunder and sounds and flashes of lightning and an earthquake.


I am getting into sharing my understanding of John's vision. Hope this won't create conflict, I just want to understand what he saw ... if this makes sense.

Now we are getting down to the last segment of the seals being opened. As I gathered from the text it appears the heavenly beings are very much aware of it being so, hence the silence.

(This silence reminds me of an orchestra. The director is standing in front of his players on the dais, hands raised, clutching his baton, eyes all on him awaiting the drop of them so they know when to sound...)

The Lamb broke the 7th seal..we must remember Jesus is opening the seals of a book and with each one comes a severe judgement upon the earth, each one increases in intensity and severity. In the 7th one it is like they are in a real showdown that will result in: "but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets." (10:7)

But before these angel sounds another angel inflicts judgement upon the earth as a result of the saints prayers. I see this fact repeated in Revelation. God inflicting punishment upon those who persecuted his children. And...it is severe, far more then we would have prescribed, I am sure. Yet, I believe it reflects the mercy of God, his justice for his children.

As I consider moderns attitude towards persistent rebellion among people who call themselves Christian, how do we regard them? Do we think they deserve God's judgments? Why and why not? Do we hate sin as much as God does? Doubt it because we think we love these people too much to suffer so.

Recently a discussion came up among my friends, "Should one shun a person?" I said, "Yes. If this person refuses to repent after being warned [multiple times] one should shun him." End of discussion. Sounds rough. But do we understand how vulnerable we are to the influences of people who strive to serve two masters? Who work to rope us into their whorl of deception?

Can we appreciate the justice of God in meting out punishments to evil doers?

I am challenged by this. Am glad I am not in charge...

Sandra




_________________
Sandra Miller

 2017/5/5 11:26Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7472
Mississippi

 Revelation 8:7-12 NASB

Revelation 8:7-12 NASB

7 The first sounded, and there came hail and fire, mixed with blood, and they were thrown to the earth; and a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up.

8 The second angel sounded, and something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea; and a third of the sea became blood,

9 and a third of the creatures which were in the sea and had life, died; and a third of the ships were destroyed.

10 The third angel sounded, and a great star fell from heaven, burning like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of waters.

11 The name of the star is called Wormwood; and a third of the waters became wormwood, and many men died from the waters, because they were made bitter.

12 The fourth angel sounded, and a third of the sun and a third of the moon and a third of the stars were struck, so that a third of them would be darkened and the day would not shine for a third of it, and the night in the same way.

Comment:

Many years ago - perhaps 25 - I read an article in "Science News" magazine, I think. In it was an article detailing or suggesting what a nuclear winter would be like. It made me sit up and take a notice. I went to the WORD and reread this chapter. If it had been a religious magazine I would have assumed the writer got his inspiration from this chapter but it was a totally secular magazine.

Are the events described here caused by the detonation of nuclear weapons upon the earth? I suggest God does not need nuclear weapons to bring about these calamities - he has all these angels - four of them to be exact (not many are there?!) to bring about this "nuclear winter".

What inspiration I get from this is how the critics of yore could say "no this is not possible" but then fast-forward to now and we say, "Oh, yes, it is" - using modern technology at the hands of trigger-happy men.

I do wonder at the time between each angels' sounding of his trumpet? Is it a mere week? a few days? years? Am not aware the text would indicate this - maybe I missed something.

In any case, God will initiate this and if He chooses to use men, this would have been in his plan from the beginning. If nuclear war happens it would not have taken God by surprise.

God is sovereign....

Sandra


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2017/5/8 11:48Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7472
Mississippi

 Revelation 9:1-4

Revelation 9:1-4 NASB:

The catastrophic events that are poured out on the earth is accelerating. We understand what John wrote in the preceding chapters and now here is the testimony of an angel: Revelation 8:13 NASB: “Woe, woe, woe to those who dwell on the earth, because of the remaining blasts of the trumpet of the three angels who are about to sound!”. This must be bad!

Revelation 9:1-4. NASB
1 Then the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star from heaven which had fallen to the earth; and the key of the bottomless pit was given to him.

2 He opened the bottomless pit, and smoke went up out of the pit, like the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by the smoke of the pit.

3 Then out of the smoke came locusts upon the earth, and power was given them, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

4 They were told not to hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, but only the men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

Now I am getting into interpretation, something that people have locked horns over in the past which I consider foolishness...yet I do think I am right! But am always open to insights from others because I am not convinced anyone understands perfectly everything Revelation speaks of. Since this is the case, I focus on understanding what John saw, seeing this vision in my mind, putting my imagination into gear with the result it being stretched. This results in experiencing a great sense of awe for God: I see his justice, his mercy at work which does have practical applications for the here and now.

Ok. Now to chapter nine verses one to four.

We see the locusts released from the bottomless pit. They were instructed to NOT hurt those who have the seal of God in their foreheads. They were selective in who they can inflict pain. I see in this portion that God's people will still be on the earth.

Some folks like to believe the church will be raptured before these judgement begin and personally, I would like to believe that, too, but I do not see the text supporting this.

I had a couple Bible School teachers who pointed out when the Israelites where enslaved in Egypt and God was sending the plagues upon the country, they experienced some of them as well. In time, God put a division between them and the native Egyptians, inflicting them but sparing the Israelties. So it will be be, too, in these end times judgments.

The question that we should be concerned about - and it is something we can do - is do we have God's seal upon us? Or, does one have to be a Jew to have this seal? In any case, are we spiritually prepared to suffer? Having many the natural things we look to to sustain life being damaged or destroyed?

Sandra


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2017/5/10 10:58Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7472
Mississippi

  Revelation 9:3-11 (NASB) - Locusts

Revelation 9:3-6:

3 Then out of the smoke came locusts upon the earth, and power was given them, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

4 They were told not to hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, but only the men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

5 And they were not permitted to kill anyone, but to torment for five months; and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings a man.

6 And in those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will long to die, and death flees from them.

7 The appearance of the locusts was like horses prepared for battle; and on their heads appeared to be crowns like gold, and their faces were like the faces of men.

8 They had hair like the hair of women, and their teeth were like the teeth of lions.

9 They had breastplates like breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was like the sound of chariots, of many horses rushing to battle.

10 They have tails like scorpions, and stings; and in their tails is their power to hurt men for five months.

11 They have as king over them, the angel of the abyss; his name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in the Greek he has the name Apollyon.


Notice the description of these locusts:
1. Their origins: came out of the smoke that rolled out of the bottomless pit. 2

2. They were empowered like scorpions. (Never lived where there are scorpions but am told they are worse then annoying - their stings are very painful.)

3. They were told who and what to inflict - their targets were specific.

4. The duration and intensity of their function was limited: do not kill, torment only for 5 months, inflict only people who do not have the seal of God in their foreheads.

5. Pain was so severe men wished they could die, but could not.

6. Their appearance:
a. like horses prepared for battle
b. on their heads appeared to be crowns like gold
c. their faces were like the faces of men
d. had hair like the hair of women
e. their teeth were like the teeth of lions
f. had breastplates like breastplates of iron
g. the sound of their wings was like the sound of
chariots, of many horses rushing to battle
h. they have tails like scorpions, and stings
i. the angel of the abyss - Apollyon, meaning "the
destroyer" - was their king

Imagine these creatures! The text gives us a detailed description of them. Many theologians have speculated what these creatures are, going so far as to spiritualize it, bending reality to fit their preconceived ideas. Then you have people who work to match these description with modern war machinery: airplanes piloted by females; tanks, etc. The problem with the latter is that these weapons are designed to kill and will kill if its target is met.

In my understanding of these locusts it is that they are creatures made for this particular purpose, used by God, controlled by the devil, yet under God's limitations and authority.

I suspect the people would recognize these creatures as being powered by the devil...and I wonder if God is not using these locusts to demonstrate the awfulness of the devil?

Whatever these creatures are, I do not get from the text that they are something we are familiar with today. The text describes their origins, what they looked like and to me this is something we know nothing about except in our imagination fueled by this scripture.

God is very much in control.

Sandra


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2017/5/12 10:18Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7472
Mississippi

 Revelation 9:13-21(NASB)

Revelation 9:13-21 NASB

13 Then the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

14 one saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, “Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.”

15 And the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, were released, so that they would kill a third of mankind.

16 The number of the armies of the horsemen was two hundred million; I heard the number of them.

17 And this is how I saw in the vision the horses and those who sat on them: the riders had breastplates the color of fire and of hyacinth and of brimstone; and the heads of the horses are like the heads of lions; and out of their mouths proceed fire and smoke and brimstone.

18 A third of mankind was killed by these three plagues, by the fire and the smoke and the brimstone which proceeded out of their mouths.

19 For the power of the horses is in their mouths and in their tails; for their tails are like serpents and have heads, and with them they do harm.

20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, so as not to worship demons, and the idols of gold and of silver and of brass and of stone and of wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk;

21 and they did not repent of their murders nor of their sorceries nor of their immorality nor of their thefts.


As I looked at this portion and wondered what inspiration I could share, I was amazed how the WORD open my eyes to see something I had never noticed before. The amazing thing is that this happens just about every time I study Revelation. No other book in the Bible is so mysterious but yet reveals its mysteries in piecemeal fashion. I love it - keeps my mind busy all day long meditating as I go about my work. And...I always end up being fully amazed. I love that.

I noticed there were four angels that were bound AT the River Euphrates. They were made to fulfill this task which they are about to accomplish. Note the location of these angels: River Euphrates. This is a physical place, a real one. This informs me that we will see an event that radiates from that area and that it is literal.

The job of these angels was to kill 1/3 of mankind. They used an army of 200,000,000 - now this is a huge army. Imagine it, if you can!

Notice the description of the army - go read the text...I am not aware of any army that matches this description, do you? So where did this army come from? What was their origins? Don't think they were humans that came from the River Euphrates area; were they demons? Angelic forces? Humans? You started out with four angels and ended up with a force of 200,000,000...where did they come from?

I could understand from verse 20 they targeted nations steeped in idolatry - people who worshiped demons, idols of gold, silver, brass, stone and wood. There is no other area on this planet where this kind of worship is as commonplace as the Asia area. This area composes of over a half of the world's population. Is this the area this plague is targeting? Don't know, but we do know God is working to destroy this idolatry, hoping people will repent. This plague is designed to prove their gods cannot see, hear or walk. But they refuse to repent, still.

What does it take to wake people up? Apparently, afflictions, distress have limited value but God is using this out of his mercy and love for people giving them an opportunity before the the final judgment is thrust upon them.

What does this portion teach you?

Sandra



_________________
Sandra Miller

 2017/5/15 10:17Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7472
Mississippi

 Revelation 10:1-6 NASB

Revelation 10:1-6 NASB

1 I saw another strong angel coming down out of heaven, clothed with a cloud; and the rainbow was upon his head, and his face was like the sun, and his feet like pillars of fire;

2 and he had in his hand a little book which was open. He placed his right foot on the sea and his left on the land;

3 and he cried out with a loud voice, as when a lion roars; and when he had cried out, the seven peals of thunder uttered their voices.

4 When the seven peals of thunder had spoken, I was about to write; and I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Seal up the things which the seven peals of thunder have spoken and do not write them.”

5 Then the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land lifted up his right hand to heaven,

6 and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, WHO CREATED HEAVEN AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE EARTH AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE SEA AND THE THINGS IN IT, that there will be delay no longer,

Today I want to focus on this statement "WHO CREATED HEAVEN AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE EARTH AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE SEA AND THE THINGS IN IT."

Jesus, God as the Creator is referred to many times in the Scriptures. This phrase identifies Him as the creator of the heavens, the earth and seas and everything in them. Everything. Get that? everything.

A designer of anything knows how things are to work when assembled as he designed it. Let something go wrong and he knows how to repair it. Except for one thing: he never made, created the raw materials used in the manufacture of its components. But God knows the components of everything in his creation because he made it. As such he is well qualified to do as He will , how and when. He is perfect in its execution, be it mercy or love or judgment. He owns it, he has the right to do as hge pleases.

How man can dispute all this is like setting themselves up as God and there ain't nobody that knows everything. No one.

The angel Honors God as the one who has all the ability and right to do all the things as he wills. It is vital to understand and Believe this as one considers the events that will follow.

Sandra


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2017/5/16 18:58Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7472
Mississippi

 Revelation 10:6-11 NASB

Revelation 10:6-11 NASB

6 and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, WHO CREATED HEAVEN AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE EARTH AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE SEA AND THE THINGS IN IT, that there will be delay no longer,

7 but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets.

8 Then the voice which I heard from heaven, I heard again speaking with me, and saying, “Go, take the book which is open in the hand of the angel who stands on the sea and on the land.”

9 So I went to the angel, telling him to give me the little book. And he said to me, “Take it and eat it; it will make your stomach bitter, but in your mouth it will be sweet as honey.”

10 I took the little book out of the angel’s hand and ate it, and in my mouth it was sweet as honey; and when I had eaten it, my stomach was made bitter.

11 And they said to me, “You must prophesy again concerning many peoples and nations and tongues and kings.”

I find this portion in Revelation pivotal in comprehending, understanding the events as recorded here in Revelation.

In v. 7 the angel says "the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets." Seventh angel: the 6th angel had sounded, 9:13, and he was the sixth angel out of seven that were sounding during the opening of the 7th seal (8:1). It was as though we are seeing the beginning of a climax to the opening of these seven seals. In the text that follows we see the writer backtracking and sharing events that happen during this 7th seal/7th angel. "Then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets." v.7

In the succeeding verses we see the angel telling John to eat a book, that it would be sweet to taste but sickening to the stomach. I am understanding this metaphorically - this is not the first time this metaphor was used.

Is it not true that one can receive a WORD from the LORD, how it delights ones soul and spirit but once a person meditates on it, understands the implications of it, it is sickening - not that we reject it, but that it will cause division between friends, family, suffering for standing for TRUTH. Suffering is painful. As I view Revelation I find it utterly fascinating intellectually, spiritually but when I consider the judgments it forces one to cringe.

But we take life one day at a time, not worrying about the future knowing God is in control. And that is the message we get in 10:6. In the mean time we must learn to trust him when glitches come our way that threatens to unravel our comfort.

(Mind if I insert a personal experience we are in right now? My husband and I grow tomatoes hydroponically - this is our livelihood. Would you know the seller sent us tomato seed that produces yellow tomatoes but we did not know they were yellow until they started ripening, wrong seed in the wrong package. And there is virtually no market for them and we are throwing hundreds of pounds away because there are no buyers...and bills have to be paid. But God knows all about it. Why he allowed it, I have no idea. Suffering? is this a dry run of what is to come?)

Sandra


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2017/5/17 12:00Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy