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TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5476
NC, USA

 Re:

I don't know. Jesus said to bless those who curse you and pray for those who abuse you (Lk. 6:28). I always assumed that praying for them and blessing them does not mean praying for their destruction.


ADD: the verse in Rev. about the souls crying out for judgment of their murderers is very reminiscent of Psalm 94, which I happened to read this morning in my through the Bible in a year reading.

The psalmists including David used imprecatory prayers but this seems to belong in an OT as opposed to NT economy.


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Todd

 2017/4/25 13:16Profile
rbanks
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Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Sister Sandra...thank you so much for this thread!

I had a little time...and I went through reading all your posts and some others who posted. I was very much blessed in the Lord! Thanks again for your insights from the Lord!

TMK...I don't know if this helps any concerning the following verses:

Revelation 6:10-11 (KJV)
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Here is my thoughts...

Remember John is given a vision of the future...this could be a time following the day of grace or church age in which we are presently in now...

Notice this scripture:

2 Thessalonians 1:5-10 (KJV)
5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Notice the attitude of Jesus during the day of the Lord when He comes back to earth with His mighty angels...

So when we get to the 5th seal we are in the future and could be after the church age of grace...more than likely these Martyrs are part of the 1st half of the tribulation period...they do not sound like they are part of the church age during this time but after...

Blessings,
rbanks

 2017/4/25 15:12Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5476
NC, USA

 Re:

Good point rbanks- I can see that line of reasoning.


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Todd

 2017/4/25 15:25Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7474
Mississippi

 Re:

Thanks for posting these verses from 2 Thess. Verse 6 sums it up well: "Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you."

I am also thinking there is a verse in the OT prophets that tells us that God's people will agree with His punishments, judgments against the wicked. I looked briefly for it, but apparently I did not use the correct words. Anybody know what scripture I am referring to?

We also notice how Moses cooperated with God to bring about judgments against the Egyptians. I would personally cringe being in that position - maybe this is a reflection on my immaturity? Oh, BTW, Moses was 80 YO, maybe that helped? We do get more rigid as we age...

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/4/26 11:20Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7474
Mississippi

 Re: Revelation 7

I am stuck on the wind being held back. That is kind of the way it goes when I get a new insight - my mind meditates a long time on it and hard to get away from it.

I mentioned how it gets so quiet and still when a storm is approaching. It is much more pronounced during tornado weather. Then it is cloudy and still, not a leaf moving, just quiet and still. But this is a localized still.

This still, quiet, no wind - what would it be like when it occurs globally? Should this not be a warning to people there is something huge about to happen? Something that far exceeds anything ever seen by mankind? Before this we had tremendous earthquakes which are usually limited to mountainous areas, but wind as described here was global, mountains or plains, it was quiet. A huge storm of unprecedented proportions is about to be let loose.

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/4/26 11:30Profile
TMK
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 Re:

Perhaps it would be helpful to determine "why" the winds are being held back.


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Todd

 2017/4/26 11:52Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
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 Re:

Why do you think the winds were held back? In nature it happens right before a storm/tornado, at least here in MS it does. When it is so still we know stormy weather is coming. Ya reckon the same principle holds? I do not read of an explanation in the scriptures why or maybe I missed it somewhere?

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/4/28 9:41Profile
ginnyrose
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 Revelation 7:9

Revelation 7:9

9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;


I suppose many of us have been told by an aggressive JW how only 144,000 will make it to heaven. But this verse informs us how many are before the throne - so many you could not count them....and you can count 144,000...

I like to keep this verse in mind when confronted by these people.

But just think about it - so many you cannot count!! Wow! How many is that??!! Sounds like it would take an eternity to even say "hello!" to everybody and this is not even taking time to visit, making an acquaintance.

Heaven sounds like a wonderful place...you know I love to look at pictures of the mansions owned by the super rich, how beautifully they are decorated. But I know one thing, heaven will be a lot more beautiful then the finest mansion any rich person can own - I like to have my imagination stretched...I just do not think we can fully comprehend how beautiful heaven is. I have heard of those who have gotten a glimpse of it and they say words fail to describe its beauty. Good enough for me!

Sandra



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Sandra Miller

 2017/4/28 9:53Profile
TMK
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Posts: 5476
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 Re:

The "calm before the storm" idea makes sense; but perhaps the calm is to spare believers.


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Todd

 2017/4/28 10:31Profile
ginnyrose
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 Revelation 7:9 - The lamb

Revelation 7:9 - The lamb

The Lamb. I need to share something here, something so profound I have a difficult time to wrap my mind around it.

Jesus is depicted - so far- in Revelation as the Lamb that had been slain, "Lamb as it had been slain" (5:6). To understand this one has to go to the OT law where the Israelites were instructed in how to celebrate their deliverance from Egypt via the observance of the Passover.

Exodus 12:3, "Tell the whole community of Israel that on the tenth day of this month each man is to take a lamb for his family, one for each household.(6) Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the members of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight."

The people were to take a perfect lamb on the tenth day into their house and keep it until the fourteenth day - 5 days when they they were to kill it, roast it and then eat it - all in the presence of the entire family or those who will partake of this Passover at this house.

Now, what is so difficult about this? Let me tell you why I think it is so hard to wrap my emotions around it.

When our five children were still at home my husband decided we would raise New Zealand rabbits to supplement the meat supply for our household. We raised the rabbits - and that is easy to do - and when they became adults, my husband butchered them, sent the meat to the house where I packaged the carcass for the freezer.

But the children!!! They simply HATED this killing process. The rabbits were cute, beautiful animals; they felt so sorry for these animals. Whenever I cooked meat for a meal they would always ask, "Mom, is this rabbit meat??" "Yes, it is." "I am NOT going to eat it" and none of them did. I was stuck with about 20 rabbits in the freezer and the only way to get rid of it is to fix it for carry-in meals at the church, not telling people what it was unless they asked. (They ate it and thought it was delicious.)

Well, this was rabbits, what about a lamb? As a child I had a pet lamb. I bottle fed it and it was like Mary's little lamb that followed her wherever it went. This lamb was my favorite pet as I was growing up. So cute, so sweet. I was sad when dad insisted it be sold. My children had a similar experience with a kid - dunno if they ever forgave their dad for selling the animal.

It is really hard, extremely difficult to eat the meat that came from an animal you loved, that was so cute. But God commanded it to be done. I can only guess why. Is it so people would get a glimpse of the awfulness of sin and the horrible penalty it requires for redemption?

It is dreadfully painful emotionally, mentally...but Jesus is depicted as a Lamb that was slain... Anyone want to expand on this?

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/5/1 11:41Profile





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