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TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5483
NC, USA

 Re:

//My understanding, what is yours?//

I think I have failed miserably in asking my question clearly.

My question pertains only to the unsaved who will be consigned to the lake of fire. It is indicated that the deeds of the unsaved will be reviewed before they are cast in. Why must their deeds be reviewed if they are all being cast into the same place? Do you think their deeds will have some effect on the judgment they receive?


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Todd

 2017/7/11 9:49Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7474
Mississippi

 Re:

QUOTE:

"Do you think their deeds will have some effect on the judgment they receive?"

I get it. Are there different degrees of punishments for sins committed?

There is one Scripture that suggests there may be, but one does not read of its concept anywhere else that I am aware of.

Luke 12:45-48 KJV

45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;

46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

How far one can go with this idea and still be Biblical I do not know. I think this portion is talking about the ignorant, not the disobedient. Yet, I am well aware of people in utter darkness, utterly ignorant of anything about the Jehovah God who came to the LORD Jesus after He revealed himself to them supernaturally. I am of the opinion that the LORD Jesus knows who will respond to his call and will make that happen. Still, what about the ignorant? Not everything makes sense, does it.

What are your thoughts?

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/7/12 16:56Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7474
Mississippi

  Revelation 21:6-7 NASB

Revelation 21:6-7 NASB

6 Then He said to me, “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost.

7 “He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.

COMMENT:

I notice the word 'thirst". Hmmmm....Is it not true that people thirst for a god to worship? You see multitudes worshiping idols of all kinds with the most common being SELF. And how well do they satisfy - Spiritually? Physically? Emotionally?

Jesus says he satisfies. True, this scripture is primarily speaking of the heavenly abode, but it begins here and will continue for all eternity. There it will be more satisfying then ever. How about that?!! And you will inherit these things because you are his son because God is your father! The beauty of heaven, the new Jerusalem - ahhhh! Can you imagine it? Try it and I suspect it will be more grand then that.

Can't get any better then that, can it?

These promises make this world look worse then ever, does it not - no conflicts there, no stupid fake news or even true news that make one wish you could use some millstone therapy....

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/7/12 17:07Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5483
NC, USA

 Re:

//What are your thoughts?//

I really don't know. Even if degrees of suffering are different they are still for eternity (if that view is correct) and therefore equal in that regard.

Plus, many as you know say that hell is "the absence of God."

If there are "degrees" of punishment in hell, does that mean some have less of an absence of God than others? That does not make sense at all.


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Todd

 2017/7/12 21:57Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2667
Nottingham, England

 Re: Revelation 21:1-4 NASB


Hello,

Revelation 21:1, ...and there is no longer any sea.

No more sea, no more life.

No people, no trees, no grass, no animals, nothing in the sea, because there is no longer any sea.

Earth will be just like all the other planets, which have no water.

There is water in heaven, but none in hell, why should there be?

There is no longer any sea.

 2017/7/13 12:10Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7474
Mississippi

 Re:

Revelation 21:1 NASB
for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.

Comment: my take is that the heavens and planets as we know it were all burned up - what the scripture is informing us is that all things are new (for us - dunno how long it took for God to get Jerusalem/heaven ready for his bride).

One can speculate about the existence of "sea" on earth. Some will say some major changes occurred in the earth's structure because of the flood and then shortly thereafter. Evolutionists would declare some radical changes as well albeit they would not attribute it to God or the flood.

But sea. Never thought a lot about it - I reckon it is a formidable part of the earth that is threatening and challenging - maybe that is why it is mentioned "there is no sea".

What are you thinking, Enid?

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/7/14 10:01Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7474
Mississippi

 Re: Revelation 21:8 NASB

Revelation 21:8 NASB

8 "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." NASB

8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. KJV

8 “But to the timid, the unbelievers, the evil, the defiled, murderers, sorcerers, fornicators, idol worshipers and all liars: their part is in the burning Lake of Fire and Brimstone, which is the second death.” Aramaic Bible in Plain English

COMMENT:

I find this list of sins informative. Various translations/versions will interpret the original a tad bit differently but the root meanings remain the same.

I notice the word "fearfully" translated as cowardly and timid also. What makes a person timid? Fear. What makes a person act cowardly? Fear. And why so? Is because we are unsure of the consequences, lack of trust and faith? the word following is 'unbelieving'. Hmmmm...is there a progression, going from fear to unbelieving to whatever sin you choose? Is it not true that one has to destroy faith and trust before one can engage in rebellion? Destroy all belief in absolutes and what is left?

Brother James informs us in 2:10: "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." I have noticed that when one observes a sin in the life of a person the others are there as well - not as obvious, perhaps, but a hint of nevertheless. So....it is very dangerous to accommodate even a 'little' sin, if there is such.

As I look over this list of sins I notice "all liars" - not some but all. Lying. What provokes lies? Is it not fear? I have also concluded lying is perhaps the most common sin that bedevils mankind, Believers and unbelievers. People begin by not believing and end up liars...Makes sense,does it not?


And all will get to share hell. Quite a contrast to the New Jerusalem.

Sandra




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Sandra Miller

 2017/7/14 10:33Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2667
Nottingham, England

 Re:


I'm just thinking that, for me, scripture says what it says,
no more sea.

What I'm really getting at is that life would cease to be.

God bless.

 2017/7/14 14:17Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5483
NC, USA

 Re:

The sea is gone while the earth is being recreated. There will be water when it's recreated. God is a fan of the oceans and seas.


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Todd

 2017/7/14 15:13Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7474
Mississippi

 Revelation 21:27 NASB

Revelation 21:27 NASB

27 and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

COMMENT:

As I read through chapter 21, trying to visualize this new Jerusalem in all its magnificence and glory one comes upon verse 27 where it again mentions the kinds of people that will not get to enjoy the New Jerusalem.

"Nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying". Unclean, abomination and lying...

What would they mean by "unclean?" or, abomination? We know what lying is....Lying is mentioned often. Is it possible that people can convince themselves that God overlooks disobedience and because they have been saved way back then that behaviors committed since do not matter? If this would be true how would one reconcile these verses where it informs us who will NOT enter the new Jerusalem? Does lying cease to be lying if you had accepted Jesus as Savior way back then? Does the anger, malice, immorality cease to be such when indulged in with out repentence after you have become 'saved'? We know what lying is but what about the deliberate misinterpretation of scripture to accommodate popular culture - is this not lying when we refuse to call it for what it is?

Now, what does the writer refer to when the term "unclean" is used?

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/7/17 17:59Profile





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