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Lysa
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3396
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Revelation 20:4-6 NASB


I'll read this better and post when I get home late this evening. Save this till then!!! LOL


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Lisa

 2017/7/5 14:48Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7471
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 Revelation 20:12,13 NASB

Revelation 20:12,13 NASB

12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

COMMENT:

I suspect if one were to pick out twelve of the most basic doctrines in the WORD that has the greatest impact on how the Scripture is to be understood, these verses would be included in this list. Actually, the doctrine as state here is what drives the rest of the WORD: men will face judgment. Period. And what are we going to do about it? And will God help mankind along in this journey? That is what it is all about, is it not?

All will stand before the judgment seat and will be judged ACCORDING to their DEEDS. Our deeds, not my kinfolks' or friends' or enemies', but mine and mine only. No matter what your position is on faith/works we will be judged according to our deeds.

What does our deeds reflect? a life that is being changed from glory to glory by the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit? Or, does it reflect a life that is lived to pleased me, myself and I alone and woe to anyone who does not share this esteem of me, myself and I?

We know that our best effort to please God is rooted in legalism: it focuses on human effort alone, judged by self-esteem. But a life that is lived in faith - obedience to the Holy Spirit - is what counts, is what changes us from carnal to glory to glory. This process can be sped along by worshiping the Creator who made all things beautiful and is in control of all things, seen and unseen. Unless we esteem our Creator highly we cannot please Him. He wants our admiration, our worship. Mankind is beholden to the object they worship and this controls our wants, desires and behavior.

How much do we worship?

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/7/6 11:03Profile
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 Re: Revelation 20:12,13 NASB

In regard to the judgment of the unsaved, what in your view is the purpose of the judgment of their deeds, i.e. To what end will this judgment of deeds be put?


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Todd

 2017/7/6 11:16Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7471
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 Revelation 20:12 NASB

Revelation 20:12 NASB

12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

COMMENT:

I would like to focus on the books that were opened that are mentioned here.

In Revelation 4 and 5 we are given a view of the throne, the elders, the living creatures, angels and the LAMB that was slain. They had a problem - there was a book and the others were very reluctant to open it but all agreed the Lamb is worthy to open it.

In opening this sealed book it evoked a lot of judgments upon mankind, each seals' calamities worst then the ones preceding it. Eventually it tells us in chapter 10:7 and 15:1 that: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophet. And:Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous, seven angels who had seven plagues, which are the last, because in them the wrath of God is finished. (15:1)

My question always has been, "what book is this and what did it contain? Was it the books referred to here in chapter 20?" This question stumps me like none other in Revelation.

Then there is Eph. 1:4: "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:" - people chosen from the foundation of the world.... Did this book contain the names of the people that the Lamb was about to open?

Yet, I am well aware one cannot build a doctrine around a solitary verse....I know this verse would give credence to extreme Calvinism that man has no free-will in the choice of determining his eternal destiny... If this is so, why the challenges to repent, to grow in knowledge if all is predetermined...

IN any case I do not care to have a debate on the merits of Calvinism because it bores me stiff, but the question remains: were these the same books referred to in chapter 5? I suspect they may not be but cannot prove it.

What say, Todd? or anyone else?

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/7/8 11:18Profile
ginnyrose
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 Re:

QUOTE:

"In regard to the judgment of the unsaved, what in your view is the purpose of the judgment of their deeds, i.e. To what end will this judgment of deeds be put?"

What good did these judgments accomplish? Good question. Revelation informs us it did not cause people to forsake sin, to repent, so what is the use? Good question.

Personally, I do not know where we are at in regard to the events stated here in this book, but do take lessons on the natural disasters and its effect on mankind. Natural disasters do cause man to think about God but am not aware it has evoked a great revival among its survivors. It does affirm to those who fear the LORD that man is NOT in control, there is a power that man cannot manipulate, or control.

What is your take on this, Todd?

QUOTE:
"To what end will this judgment of deeds be put?" I see in verse 15: "And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.' Pretty straight forward, is it not? The others? Chapters 21 and 22 detail those events. Now this is awesome, in my opinion.

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/7/8 11:31Profile
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 Re:

Hi Sandra-

I wasn't clear enough. When I said judgments I didn't mean the catastrophes- I was talking about God judging deeds.

Specifically in regard to the unsaved, what is the purpose in judging their deeds? Are not all unsaved cast into the lake of fire regardless of their deeds? It would seem the only deed of any importance is their refusal to turn to Christ.


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Todd

 2017/7/8 12:05Profile
ginnyrose
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 Re:

QUOTE:

"Specifically in regard to the unsaved, what is the purpose in judging their deeds? Are not all unsaved cast into the lake of fire regardless of their deeds? It would seem the only deed of any importance is their refusal to turn to Christ."

You ask some pointed questions - but then attorneys are skilled in doing so, right?

I would say ones' deeds reveal what resides in the heart. Some folks say what one does is irrelevant but what is in the heart is all that matters. Seems to me this scripture is telling us that deeds and heart issues cannot be separated.

How do you understand it?

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/7/8 18:31Profile
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 Re:

I guess my real question is what God will do with the results of his "deeds review" of the unsaved. For example, person A was a dirty rotten God hater their whole life; person B was a child molestor; person C is a devout Jewish man who loves his family and is a model citizen, person D was a struggling 19 yr old single mother who was never churched growing up and struggled to survive in the ghetto.

God judges each persons deeds. But all four (some argue) will spend an eternity in the lake of fire. So why do their deeds matter?


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Todd

 2017/7/8 22:10Profile
ginnyrose
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 Re:

Why do their deeds matter?

I suggest it is because it informs others what they are. You would not want heaven to be peopled with human Lucifers, would you? cannot imagine that. But is that not what would happen if the wicked never repented of their behaviors and would continue that in heaven? Imagine what mess that would be! It would be like earth all over again. LORD, have mercy! if that would be the case.

My understanding, what is yours?

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/7/11 9:34Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7471
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 Revelation 21:1-4 NASB

Revelation 21:1-4 NASB

1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.

2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them,

4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”

COMMENT:

I love this picture of God that we see described here. He is described as:

1.He will dwell among the people.

2.He will wipe EVERY tear from their eyes. (Like a mama cuddling her child when he gets an ouchie!)

3. No death...wow!

4. No mourning, crying or pain. (Got pain now? No more in heaven!)

5. He provided a place adorned for his people. Constructed with the finest, most costly materials imagined.

I see God depicted as a loving, sweet God who revels in the company of his children. How precious!

Since this is the case why would we want to do anything that would prevent you from getting there?

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/7/11 9:43Profile





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