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ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7471
Mississippi

 Re:

QUOTE:
"Not to split hairs too fine- but if God knows who will repent doesn't that mean they will repent?"

Yes. I think God will provide for them the opportunity so they can do so. It still requires an act, decision of the will. There are many out there who have heard and made the decision to reject the Gospel and God knows who they are.

When I was seeing clients at the crises pregnancy center we saw all kinds of people with all kinds of sins, difficulties. Many times it seemed as though we were talking to a brick wall which exasperated us. Then I started praying that God would only bring in the people He was working with. And would you know? that made ALL the difference in the world? It did not enhance the stats the center like to put out for their supporters to see how successful we were in seeing an x number of clients. But we were successful in helping these people move up a notch in learning to listen to the Holy Spirit and this cannot be measured with numbers, stats geared to impress.

This has been my experience.

My understanding. Do you think otherwise?

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/6/5 10:54Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7471
Mississippi

 Revelation 14:8

Revelation 14:8 NASB
8 And another angel, a second one, followed, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who has made all the nations drink of the wine of the passion of her immorality.”

As I study Rev. 14 it seems to me the writer is giving a brief overview of the final events leading up to the "end". In the chapters following the writer backs up and describes in more detail about the events mentioned.

In the verse quoted we learn that Babylon has fallen (or will fall). Chapter 18 describes Babylon in greater detail and will look at that in the future.

I consider it significant that in this brief description of Babylon it mentions her immorality that it is defined by it.

As I observe modern day life and contrast it with life 50 years I see a rapid decline of morality, the rapid acceleration of the acceptance of immorality. Advertisers use images of immorality to attract attention to promote their product. As a consumer I decided early on to NOT buy any products that resort to such advertising. (Many years ago "Guess" jeans used it to promote their jeans - I decided then and there to never buy any pants for our boys with that logo. And I didn't either. It may not have made them any difference, but in no way will I use my money to support their philosophical bent.)


In Chapter 18 it tells the Believer to come out from her, so how does one do that? (running ahead of the text here...) Can we disassociate ourselves from powerful entities that are characterized by immorality - Like music, entertainment, clothing?

Babylon is going to FALL. It is doomed to failure. Since this is the case why are we so attracted to it? I suppose chapter 18 will teach us more on this, but it does come down to right were we live.

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/6/5 11:10Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7471
Mississippi

 Revelation 14:9-13 NASB

Revelation 14:9-13 NASB

9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,

10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

11 “And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

13 And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, “Write, ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!’” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them.”

An in-depth study of Revelation does wonders to soothe ones' fear of the future. I love it! There is so much out there that spooks a thinking person, generating a lot of fear, knowing one can do next to nothing to cure what is going wrong. And....the scripture promises us that if one stands up to it it will kill ya. How comforting is that?

But verse 13 informs us that one who dies because of standing for Jesus is blessed. This should comfort the Believer that death is not to be feared at all.

It is in our nature to resist death - we do all manner of things to preserve life which I think is God-given as a means to preserve the species - all life forms seems to be wired to do such. Death is so final from which there is no return which does instill fear. Ecclesiastes tells us that God has put eternity in our hearts, hence the fear.

The promise of blessing is to "the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus." (v.12.) These are the ones who will earn the blessing.

I have seen in my lifetime three people die and another one who thought she was dying. Two died very peaceably; another had a heart attack that killed him and they are very painful which was very evident. (Was not aware how painful they are until I witnessed it.) And the other - thought she was dying and she went into a panic and was making confessions, asking for forgiveness of those she had wronged. But there was still no peace. People had to talk peace to her. But she recovered. And there was no evidence of repentance for wrongs confessed earlier.

Deathbed confessions. This is my concern today. This person has been given the opportunity to repent now but has not, if anything things are worse. Scripture tells us the reward is to the faithful - this begins when the mind is rational and conscience decisions can and are being made with a lifestyle to prove it. To think one can say a few words with no heart change is the most misleading concept in theology, IMO. This should provoke one to repentence and obedience - walking with the LORD marked by a lifestyle that reflects this. The alternative is horrid, nothing comforting in it. None at all. (v.10, 11.)

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/6/6 12:18Profile
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 Re: Revelation 14:9-13 NASB

Isaiah 34:5-10 “For My sword shall be bathed in heaven; Indeed it shall come down on Edom, And on the people of My curse, for judgment. The sword of the Lord is filled with blood, It is made overflowing with fatness, With the blood of lambs and goats, With the fat of the kidneys of rams. For the Lord has a sacrifice in Bozrah, And a great slaughter in the land of Edom. The wild oxen shall come down with them, And the young bulls with the mighty bulls; Their land shall be soaked with blood, And their dust saturated with fatness.” For it is the day of the Lord’s vengeance, The year of recompense for the cause of Zion. Its streams shall be turned into pitch, And its dust into brimstone; Its land shall become burning pitch. It shall not be quenched night or day; Its smoke shall ascend forever. From generation to generation it shall lie waste; No one shall pass through it forever and ever.


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Todd

 2017/6/6 15:38Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7471
Mississippi

 Revelation 14:19-20 NASB

Revelation 14-:19-20 NASB
19 So the angel swung his sickle to the earth and gathered the clusters from the vine of the earth, and threw them into the great wine press of the wrath of God.

20 And the wine press was trodden outside the city, and blood came out from the wine press, up to the horses’ bridles, for a distance of two hundred miles.

I find this intriguing.

We see in the previous verses judgement being meted out and in these two verses very interesting numbers given. I used to think these numbers were absurd, uncomprehending and perhaps they were just a figure of speech but doubted that because of the language used.

Lets do the math and see where we will come out at.

In Rev. 9:16: "The number of the armies of the horsemen was two hundred million; I heard the number of them." Who were these horsemen -humans or supernatural beings? I suggest they were human because they are called "horsemen". There were 200,000,000 of them. Are these the same horses as mentioned here in chapter 14?

Assuming they are, lets go on....

The horses were killed and their blood ran for 200 miles at the level of a horses'bridles. Now, that is a LOT of blood, I tell you. Cannot imagine anyone with a wild imagination think up something so absurd, or is it?

Ok, here we go: 200,000,000 horses all killed would =1,000,000 horses per mile. If they are all killed how wide a swath of blood would it take to be several feet deep?

Or, is this blood that ran so deep human blood?

Has anyone else figured this out?

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/6/8 15:15Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7471
Mississippi

 Re:

Good verses to share here.

We have been conditioned by modern teachers that God is all love and would do no violence, no wrath because it is not considered to be in keeping with moderns concept of love. Yet, we all know that there can be no love, mercy without wrath against sin.

Thanks for sharing...we do well to remember this concept runs deep in the scriptures.

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/6/8 15:19Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7471
Mississippi

 Revelation 15

Revelation 15:2,3 NASB

2 And I saw something like a sea of glass mixed with fire, and those who had been victorious over the beast and his image and the number of his name, standing on the sea of glass, holding harps of God.

3 And they sang the song of Moses, the bond-servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying,


As I read chapters 15 and 16 I am left in horrible awe at the pain, calamities inflicted upon mankind. But early on the angels shows John how the faithful are in the presence of the LORD while these plagues are in process. And these saints are praising the LORD for the judgments afflicted.

I perceive the saints have a perspective of the holiness of God, including his anger upon sin that we mortals still trapped in our fleshly bodies cannot comprehend.

As I considered the wrath of God upon the unrepentant I am reminded of what happens when a lonely ant - or a horde of them - will climb onto your foot/leg and bite you. I assume the reason for it is because he feels his well-being is threatened. When this happens my attention is immediately diverted from what I was doing and that ant will be killed - DEAD. If there is a mound nearby we will work to make it history asap. My husband will pour ant killer about it and in time most will die. I will use far more lethal means: pour gasoline on the mound, using a stick to puncture it making sure it penetrates the mound well, then pour a small trail of gas on the ground going 12 feet away and them light it with a match. Kills 'em dead! And I like to see them dead because these fire ants can kill or at the least inflict a lot of pain on man and beast.

As I consider my response to fire ants I cannot help but compare it to my reaction to evil about me - I am like the ant, puny, ignorant of the forces arrayed against me once my presence and will becomes known. God is to evil like I was to the fire ant colony. And I suspect the comparison is just as great. So, it must be in my best interest to trust God to initiate justice upon evil and I must get out of the way.

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/6/9 11:24Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7471
Mississippi

 Re: Revelation 16: 1-11 NASB

Revelation 16:1-11 NASB

1 Then I heard a loud voice from the temple, saying to the seven angels, “Go and pour out on the earth the seven bowls of the wrath of God.”

2 So the first angel went and poured out his bowl on the earth; and it became a loathsome and malignant sore on the people who had the mark of the beast and who worshiped his image.

3 The second angel poured out his bowl into the sea, and it became blood like that of a dead man; and every living thing in the sea died.

4 Then the third angel poured out his bowl into the rivers and the springs of waters; and they became blood.

5 And I heard the angel of the waters saying, “Righteous are You, who are and who were, O Holy One, because You judged these things;

6 for they poured out the blood of saints and prophets, and You have given them blood to drink. They deserve it.”

7 And I heard the altar saying, “Yes, O Lord God, the Almighty, true and righteous are Your judgments.”

8 The fourth angel poured out his bowl upon the sun, and it was given to it to scorch men with fire.

9 Men were scorched with fierce heat; and they blasphemed the name of God who has the power over these plagues, and they did not repent so as to give Him glory.

10 Then the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom became darkened; and they gnawed their tongues because of pain,

11 and they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores; and they did not repent of their deeds.

There is one statement here in Revelation -which occurs several times- that troubles me much: "and they blasphemed the name of God who has the power over these plagues, and they did not repent." This happens after God sent them severe calamities. Why? How can people be so hard? In the OT when the Israelites apostatized God sent something to make life hard and difficult - he removed their securities. After a period of time they repented. (The Chronicles detail this fluctuation of repentance and falling away beautifully. Insightful read.)

As we notice in verses 9 and 11 these people had a sense of God - they blamed Him for their misery. Why on earth did they not acknowledge their helplessness and fall on the mercy of God for redemption? These judgments were designed to provoke men to repentance but it did not seem to work.

Today, I know many people who have repented when faced with chastisement. And...this is what Believers do when God disciplines his children. We repent - we acknowledge our failures, sins and with the Holy Spirit's empowerment it becomes history.

Scripture talks about hardness of hearts. I am thinking...what would happen when we encounter this mindset if one were to remind them of the danger of pursuing a rejection of God's voice and that it will result in a hardness of heart?

These people were not ignorant of God...OH!

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/6/13 12:31Profile
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5388
NC, USA

 Re:

Something you said struck me: "These judgments were designed to provoke men to repentance but it did not seem to work."

Q: Why did cause choose judgments that would not work? How sure are you that they were designed to provoke men to repentance? How does this square with Rom. 2:4?

I have no answers, only questions.


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Todd

 2017/6/13 12:47Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7471
Mississippi

 Revelation 16:15 NASB

Revelation 16:15 NASB

15 “Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.”

I find this verse interesting. It is in the middle of a detailed account of the severe judgement God is inflicting upon the earth. Apparently, God's people still lived in the middle of these judgments - they were there but not of it.

As I look at life - prompted by this verse, I am reminded what Jesus says you are in the world but not of it. Hmmm...can one be so detached from it that the craziness will not rope us into its whorl? Or, when life hands you lemons, do we fret and stew? Believe it or not, but this study has helped me a LOT as we are dealing with serious setbacks. We have grown tomatoes commercially for years. What is one to do when a company sends you the wrong seed - it looks like what we have used in the past - only to find out it was the wrong seed - wrong seed in a mislabeled package. Here you have worked to produce something to sell that will earn you an income only to find out you have been working to produce something that will not sell. Lawsuit? some have encouraged it, but what does the Bible say about it? No go. Did this error take God by surprise? On the other hand, is my identity as a Believer characterized by me growing tomatoes? or, is it apart and beyond? Who am I?

These people who lived through these calamities were not characterized by the prevailing culture, but were separate and apart. Are we separate and apart of what life dishes out to us? Are we living above the terrible things that work to undermine our comfort, our faith? And...the text informs us one can live above these distracting situations. And....calls the faithful "Blessed".

Am thinking a lot about this.

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/6/16 11:45Profile





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