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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Is Galatians 2:20 a promise or experience?

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passerby
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Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 742


 Re:

The problem is being contented with too much abstraction of meanings which is easily being repeated and stereotyped resulting to lingering confusion over the matter such as originally laid in the first post of this thread.

As Peter had pointed out, Paul which Peter do not the doubt the authenticity of being a true apostle, nevertheless, propounded things that some people perverted to their own and others' destruction. We see, that Paul in his letters, had been falsely and violently accused of evil because of this.

Crucial points are within the theme of Paul's letter to the Galatians _ whether the gentiles were to be circumcised, convert to Judaism, or subscribed to Jewish ordinances and traditions first before they became really fully accepted to God. We already know the answer but many then, were offended.

Another abstracted point is the meaning of walking in the Spirit, what is then palpable intent of this verse (or statement)? We know that there is only one Master and one Teacher, the Lord Jesus Christ. Whether we heard it from Paul, Peter, James, or John __ whether we read it in Romans, Galatians, or other books of the bible, they will be speaking of the same thoughts and intents.

Herein, as we remember, is confirmed again, that during our earthly days there is a struggle between our sinful propensities(flesh) and the Spirit (Holy Ghost). To which Paul (plainly)said walk in the Spirit, as he described later the works of the flesh and fruit of the Spirit.

In the same intent, the Lord said "walk in the light" and "abide in me", "keep (obey) my commandments. To walk in he Spirit is to be led by the Spirit(Gal 5:18) and to walk after the spirit(Rom 8:4-5).

The abstraction is we are but just an inactive participant with no willful efforts and self-sacrifice to make, nor cross to carry, which may led to the perversion that the gospel of Christ which the apostle Paul preached promotes sin, and that any of our willful efforts to follow Christ is a false gospel.

The Lord has this to say, "So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do" (Luke 17:10). I believe, the apostle Paul got it right indeed.





 2017/2/25 21:15Profile
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1953


 Re:

The posters who believe that Gal 2:20 is a reality to them or a fact to them should care to answer this question.
If you consider yourself already dead and Christ is living the life for you, then when you fall to lust with eyes, is it you who lusted with eyes or is it Christ? When you yell at someone, then is it you or is it Christ?

I do not believe Christ living inside us, is same as Holy Spirit living inside us. In Galatians it self there are differences. For example in Gal 4:6 Paul is saying, "Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”

So Galatians are people who received the Holy SPirit or the Spirit of Jesus.

But he also tells them 4:19- "My children, with whom I am again in labor until Christ is formed in you"

So this means they do not have Christ living inside them. They might have received the Holy Spirit, but Christ is still not formed inside them.

This proves that Gal 2:20 is not fulfilled in them. Becuase if Christ is not formed in them then how can Christ live in them?

We all receive Holy Spirit of God when we are born again. Holy Spirit gives us desire to live a Godly life. But if we choose not to die to self and live to God then Christ will not live inside us like how Paul had in Gal 2:20.

The experience that Paul has in Gal 2:20, is available to all of us. But unless we desire to have the experience we will not have it. Just imagining that I already have it, is not going to help either. Hence it is very important for us to understand the reality of our spiritual condition and long for the real experience, rather than a fake belief.


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Sreeram

 2017/2/27 12:24Profile









 Re: Sree

.
/// So this means they do not have Christ living inside them. They might have received the Holy Spirit, but Christ is still not formed inside them. ///

Respectfully brother you might want to take a look at the verses below in Romans 8:9-10,

However, you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, He does not belong to him. If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Paul appears to be using the Holy Spirit and Christ interchangeably in the above passages. So to say that one has the Holy Spirit and does not have Christ living in them does not appear to be taught in the New Testament.

Bro Blaine



 2017/2/27 15:42
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1953


 Re:

Quote:

Paul appears to be using the Holy Spirit and Christ interchangeably in the above passages. So to say that one has the Holy Spirit and does not have Christ living in them does not appear to be taught in the New Testament.



Based on the verses that I quoted from Gal 4. Christ is clearly not formed in them. Or in other words CHristlikeness is not found in them. None of the verse you posted, in any way disagrees with what I have written.

I too believe that Spirit of Jesus and Holy Spirit are same, as I posted earlier.
Christlikeness is not same as having the Holy Spirit. Just because a person has received the holy spirit, does not make him Chirst like. In other words, that does not mean Christ is living inside him and not he. That is what I am trying to differentiate.

Respectfully, if you want to disagree with me, then post your logical answer for the entire post of mine. I am especially interested in how you will answer my question in the first few lines of my post. Just taking a particular line, totally removing the context in which I have mentioned that is not a logical answer at all.


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Sreeram

 2017/2/27 15:55Profile
ChadC
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Joined: 2017/1/10
Posts: 29
Western Edge, North Dakota

 Re: Is Galatians 2:20 a promise or experience?

Concur with "William's" thoughts.

Though I believe there are depths to scripture we will always have further kindled and brought to life and illumination by the Holy Spirit I believe this verse is primarily one denoting both Paul's positional and relational experience to the Lord. Paul was identifying himself with both the atoning purpose as well as the overcoming outcome of His Master's obedient work on the cross.

Upon the foundation of that atoning ripped veil, Jesus via the Holy Spirit was spiritually manifesting Himself in and through Paul, through the spiritual vehicle of Paul's expectant trust or faith.

I believe this is a similar exclamation to that which Paul made in Colossians 1:27 "Christ in you, the hope of glory!".

I do believe it is a promise for us as "God is no respecter of persons" but that we should be careful not to merely pretend we have attained it either. We should proclaim until we see Him formed in us... but not stop till we do.

Preaching to myself as well!


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Chad C

 2017/2/27 16:50Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
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 Re:

John 13:20 Verily <amen>, verily <amen>, I say <lego> unto you <humin>, He that receiveth <lambano> whomsoever <ean> <tis> I send <pempo> receiveth <lambano> me <eme>; and <de> he that receiveth <lambano> me <eme> receiveth <lambano> him that sent <pempo> me <me>.

Who did Jesus send? John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

What was the purpose of the Comforter? John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Even the Comforter, Teacher, Parakletos is sent in the Name of Jesus Christ by the Father that the believer might be indwelt by the Holy Spirit, sent by the Father, in Jesus' name.

To bring all things to remembrance, that Jesus Said while He was hear on this earth.

Then Jesus will not leave us alone, He will also come unto us and indwell us by His Spirit that is born again in us, by the birthing of the Fathers incorruptible Seed, which is the Word, Jesus Christ Himself. John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. This comfortless is not the same as the Holy Ghost, but the same as being fatherless.

So we have the Holy Spirit Teacher of all the things that Jesus said, that we might know Him in truth. Then Jesus will also come to indwell us and also bring even the Father with Him to be with us.

John 14:19-20 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Where is Jesus Christ? In you, and me. If the Father is in Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ is in the Father, How can we be not in Jesus Christ by the birthing of The Spirit of Christ in us by the Father, being born again of incorruptible Seed of the Father, Jesus Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. This word should be Word. The same as John 1:1-4.

Back to the Holy Spirit and what He is to do; John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:13-14 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Christ is born again in us, this is eternal life. The Holy Spirit is in us and will be in us forever, to teach every born again Christian exactly what the Christ in each of us needs to hear of what Jesus Christ tells the Holy Spirit to teach me, just for me, and teach you, just for you. All will be for each individual needs to hear, by the Holy Spirit revealing what Jesus Christ wants us to Hear and be.

The new life of Christ born again in us with the Father and the Holy Spirit is what Pauls' mystery of Christ in you the Hope of Glory is all about.

Study John 14,15,16 to see exactly what the Holy Spirit is in us for and the Life of Christ in us giving eternal life, by all that the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit have done for a our salvation in Christ Jesus my eternal life. The study all of what Paul, the apostle to the gentiles and what he calls my gospel.

Colossians 1:23-28 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Whose gospel? Mr 8:35
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
Mr 10:29
And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
Ac 20:24
But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
Ro 1:9
For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
Ro 2:16
In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to (((my gospel.)))
Ro 16:25
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to (((my gospel,))) and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Why to the gentiles?

Acts 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2017/2/27 18:33Profile
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1953


 Re:

No one is dennying the infilling of Holy Spirit here. As a person who has personally experienced the baptism of Holy Spirit, how can I denny what I have experienced?

All I am expecting is simple answer to the following question. If every born again believer is automatically experiencing Gal 2:20, then how ill one answer this question when the believer sins?

If you consider yourself already dead and Christ is living the life for you, then when you fall to lust with eyes, is it you who lusted with eyes or is it Christ? When you yell at someone, then is it you or is it Christ?


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Sreeram

 2017/2/27 20:54Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Christ did not sin and cannot sin. So it is me in the flesh and blood that is doing the sinning, not the Spirit of Christ birthed in me. I have an advocate with the Father Jesus Christ, and if I agree with God what sin is and confess my transgression God is faithful and just to forgive and cleanse from unrightousness. This forgiveness is based upon what Jesus Christ did on the Cross. This does not give me license to sin. All sin is against God.

In Christ: Phillip

Question: What does the Holy Spirit do for you?

Question: Where is Jesus Christ now, what does He do for you?


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Phillip

 2017/2/28 5:22Profile
StirItUp
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 Re: Righteousness not Christlikeness

Dear brother Sree,

We are blurring the lines in this discussion. Let us interpret the scriptures in context and not from our personal point of view regarding holiness and Christlike behavior.

You say:"If you consider yourself already dead and Christ is living the life for you, then when you fall to lust with eyes, is it you who lusted with eyes or is it Christ? When you yell at someone, then is it you or is it Christ?"

Answer: The letter to Galatians is not primarily dealing with the matter of sins but of being put right with God by grace in Christ Jesus, contrasted to by the works of the Law. When Paul says he is in birth pains again to see Christ formed in them he is referring to the gospel preached to them,of righteousness which comes by grace through our Lord Jesus Christ and the fact that they were allowing themselves to be drawn away from that truth and starting to mix grace and Law.
He wants Christ formed in them in clear understanding that the righteousness of God comes as a gift through faith in Jesus Christ alone and not through any works of the Law or anything else.

If Galatians 2 verse 20 was referring to Paul having reached some stage of perfection in his faith then we would be saying that indeed a sinless perfection is possible for a Christian in this life and that Paul therefore never sinned in word or deed thereafter.
I think he would be the first to emphatically deny such a thing.

Beware that by not understanding this scripture in its true context it does not lead to becoming too focused on self and our efforts to become Christlike by some works of our own and we bring ourselves under condemnation.

The great cry of Galatians is: " It is for freedom that Christ has set us free!"

Stand fast in that freedom in Christ, brethren, and from that basis live your lives in love and in the power of the Holy Spirit!

Blessings,


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William

 2017/2/28 7:10Profile
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1953


 Re:

Quote:

If Galatians 2 verse 20 was referring to Paul having reached some stage of perfection in his faith then we would be saying that indeed a sinless perfection is possible for a Christian in this life and that Paul therefore never sinned in word or deed thereafter.



No I do not believe in Sinless perfection. Nor does Apostle Paul. What Paul is talking here is, in the areas that Paul is aware of, it is no longer he that lives but Christ who lives in him. Every time we put the flesh to death, the Christlikeness keeps increasing in us. Brother Zac Poonen uses this illustration of a house. Our life is like a house with many rooms. There are rooms like our finances, entertainment etc.

Now when we are born again we invite Jesus into our house or life. But Jesus is not fully living inside our house. There are areas where we restrict Jesus from entering because in those areas we still want to do our will. We might be doing it unknowingly. For example David Wilkerson was spending time in watching TV, until God asked him to get rid of it, then he used that time to pray and get the burden for lost! We all know the result of that burden. So the same way Jesus increases to occupy more rooms into our life. It comes by putting our self to death in each of those rooms and allowing Jesus to take control.

As far as Paul knew, Christ was living in all the rooms that he is aware of in his life. If God shows more rooms then he will by virtue of putting the flesh to death, invite Christ in those rooms as well.

That is why Paul was able to say - 1 Cor 4:4:- "For I am conscious of nothing against myself, yet I am not by this acquitted; but the one who examines me is the Lord."


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Sreeram

 2017/2/28 12:38Profile





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