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Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK


Yuehan, I would agree that it has to be that way around, however right believing does not always produce right living. That is because there has to be real faith in acting on what we believe. I am making a distiction betweem 'faith' and 'believing' a set of truths, because they are very different . I see faith as an attribute (based on Hebrews 11 and James 2), much like humility or kindness is an attribute. You cannot say you have humility or kindness without it being evident in your actions. In the same way faith does not exist seperately from how we live, but is always manifested in some tangible way.

I think the great shame of modern times is that we have made 'faith' into just mental belief or some mysterious unseen force, when in fact it is a virtuous attribute that should be a manifest part of part of our character in the same way as humility, kindness, love, etc. Now all these attributes come from God and not ourselves and to Him we should go to for the supply we need. In fact faith comes by hearing the Word of God. So as we spend time in God's word and in prayer we receive these things we need. These are God's means of grace to enable us to receive His life for us, so to denegrate them as unnecessary for holiness (as has been suggested by some) is wrong I believe.


 2017/1/26 13:35Profile

Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1711



It's certainly not "do nothing Christianity" Sree but more like John 15 apart from me you can do nothing - if you abide in me and my words abide in you you will bear much fruit showing yourselves to be my disciples

I agree with John 15 in which Jesus said apart from me you can do nothing. But that is not the complete truth. The complete truth is to join that statement with 'I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength' (Phil 4:13).

1 Cor 15:10 - But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace to me was not in vain. No, I worked harder than all of them — yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me

This is the complete truth. We cannot ignore Human part totally out by just quoting John 15.

Like I said, I am interested in the life testimony of those who believe in this 'Christ will do everything' theology. Show me how your life is. If Tuc can post so much why not post his personal testimony? How about inviting others to come and see his family life, personal purity etc. If a life of Come and see is not there, then all the theology is total rubbish.


 2017/1/26 13:38Profile

Joined: 2006/8/10
Posts: 521


Yes Dave, I agree with you. God has made provision for living the Christian life but we must appropriate it by faith. And that faith is more than just understanding or agreeing with a doctrine or teaching. The children of Israel owned the Promised Land before they entered it because it was given to them by God. But it did them no good until they went up by faith and took possession of it. They possessed it as their feet trod on it and they occupied it. Adrian Rogers has an excellent message on this very thing. This link may or may not work in the future. The message was broadcast Jan. 24, 2017. It is entitled Possessing Your Possessions


 2017/1/26 14:13Profile

 Look at this sermon on SI by Rev. Ernest O'Neill

I do not see anything in this sermon that differs from what I posted

 2017/1/26 14:37

Joined: 2009/1/11
Posts: 77

 Re: What Jesus said.

Sree bro - you can read some of Tuc's testimony here:
He's not saying don't "be" holy rather he is saying (by my understanding) that the way to holiness is through faith not through our own hard work :-) This agrees with scripture.

Greg - what was it in particular that was wrong in the initial article?

Every time Jesus said something He didn't go into detail to clarify what He "wasn't" saying

Sometimes maybe we are so over focused on what was not said that we're missing what was actually said?

This is what the Lord said:
Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Hallelujah !!!

The talk is of a righteousness that is by faith - not a faith without righteousness.

"The Saving Life of Christ" by Major Ian Thomas is another good book on this.

Love in the Lord.

Andrew Wales

 2017/1/26 22:31Profile

Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 636


I am not connected with Joseph Prince, Hillsong, Joel Osteen, etc.

When I open my Bible, I step into GRACE.....WONDERFUL GRACE! AMAZING GRACE!

I DO NOT reject God's amazing grace because of a fear of hyper grace.

The closing words of the Bible are:

"The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen." (Rev. 22:21)

Thank You, Lord Jesus, for Your precious grace!


Just a thought:
If in running away from the prosperity gospel and hyper grace we run into a poverty gospel and meagre grace.....the enemy has a double victory.


 2017/1/27 1:00Profile

Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 636

 Some other translations of 2 Peter 1:5

2 PETER 1:5

New American Standard Bible:

Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge,

Young's Literal Translation:

And this same also -- all diligence having brought in besides, superadd in your faith the worthiness, and in the worthiness the knowledge,

The Zondervan Greek and English Interlinear New Testament:

For this very reason, make every effort by your faith to produce virtue, and by virtue knowledge,

(Note: I had already posted this in a reply to Todd in another thread)

For interest.


 2017/1/27 3:35Profile

Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37096
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

 Re: Some other translations of 2 Peter 1:5

Grace is not only the mercy of God but also the power to enable us to obey Him.


Standing Firm in the True Grace of God by Zac Poonen

"This is the true grace of God. Stand firm in it" (1 Pet.5:12). Here at the end of Peter's first letter, he says that what he has written in his letter is all about the true grace of God. In these days when false grace is being preached so much, it is good to go back to 1 Peter to see what the TRUE grace of God really is, and to stand firm in it. The fact that Peter uses the expression "the TRUE grace of God" in the first century itself indicates that even in those days a counterfeit grace was being proclaimed by the agents of Satan, who had "turned the grace of God into licentiousness (license to sin) (Jude 4). Right at the outset, Peter tells us that all believers are "chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, that they may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood"and for such believers, he prays that God's "grace and peace may be theirs in fullest measure" (1 Pet.1:2).

God chose us in order to sanctify us (make us holy) and to lead us to obey the Lord Jesus Christ. This is what the true grace of God is meant to lead us into; and so Peter prays that those who desire this in their lives may experience God's grace in fullest measure. Peter then says that "as to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful search and inquiry" (1 Pet.1:10). The grace that we experience under the new covenant was not experienced by anyone in old covenant times. Even the prophets could only prophesy about this grace as something that would come in the future. They could not experience it themselves. Peter then urges all believers to "fix their hope completely on the grace that is to be brought to them at the revelation of Jesus Christ." (1 Pet.1:13). When Christ returns in glory, we will experience a special grace that will transform us totally into His likeness. From the beginning of our Christian life to the very end, God's work in us is entirely one of grace.

Peter also speaks of receiving grace for a happy married life: " You husbands likewise, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with a weaker vessel, since she is a woman; and grant her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered." (1 Pet.3:7). God wants Christian married couples to live together in peace and harmony. Their home must be an island of peace in a strife-torn world. And for this, abundant grace is required.

Peter then goes on to speak of spiritual gifts: "As each one has received a special gift, employ it in serving one another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God." (1 Pet.4:10) Every spiritual gift is to be used only to SERVE others, as a means of dispensing the true grace of God to them. The grace of God is many-sided. Therefore God has chosen people from different backgrounds and with different personalities and temperaments and placed them all together in Christ's Body so that each of them can display some unique aspect of God's grace through his/her life and ministry.

"You younger men, likewise, be subject to your elders; and all of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, for God is opposed to the proud, but gives grace to the humble." (1 Pet.5:5). Here Peter speaks about the importance of learning submission to spiritual authority in our younger days itself. If a young man is saved by the age of 20, it is usually God's purpose that he should have an effective ministry by the time he is 35 years old. But for this to be fulfilled, that man should learn the all- important lessons of brokenness and humility by the time he is 35. And those lessons can be learnt only as he submits to spiritual authority. Only thus can He receive grace to exercise spiritual authority later in his home and in the church. Young people who do not submit to spiritual authority invariably end up losing the ministry God had in mind for them. This does not mean that we don't have to humble ourselves once we are older!! Subjection to elders must be learnt when we are young. But following Jesus along the way of humility is something that we have to keep on doing until our dying day. That is the only way to keep on receiving grace until the very end of our lives.

SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2017/1/27 9:03Profile

Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5355



You keep saying that but I have no idea what you mean.

Tell us what you mean from a *practical* standpoint.

If someone were to say to you "ok tuc, I'm ready to do what you say. Please tell me exactly what I have to do step by step," what would you tell that person?

You can't just tell them to just rest in what Jesus has done because that is meaningless to them.
I am still awaiting a meaningful response to this question.


 2017/1/27 10:57Profile

Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936

 Bro Greg

RE : /// Greg - what was it in particular that was wrong in the initial article?///

Could you please answer this question ?

Remember, Anne Hutchinson was misconstrued and wrongfully understood on this type of a subject.

 2017/1/27 11:10Profile

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