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TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re: YES! lets take what God's says about us as true.

Tuc-

You keep saying that but I have no idea what you mean.

Tell us what you mean from a *practical* standpoint.

If someone were to say to you "ok tuc, I'm ready to do what you say. Please tell me exactly what I have to do step by step," what would you tell that person?

You can't just tell them to just rest in what Jesus has done because that is meaningless to them.


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Todd

 2017/1/26 10:26Profile
TrueWitness
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Joined: 2006/8/10
Posts: 661


 Re:

Yes Dave, I agree with you. Our walk with God involves God doing His part and us doing our part. It is easy to overemphasize either God’s side or our side. There is truth on both sides. Those who overemphasize our side of it come off as Pelagianists who are striving after self-righteousness. Those who overemphasize God’s side of it come off as being lazy and naïve. As long as we live in unglorified bodies we as Christians have to be ever on the lookout for the stirrings of the flesh and deal with it. You have to want to stay free from it and then you need to reckon on your being dead to sin, alive to God and your newborn spirit man, empowered by the Holy Spirit, is greater and more powerful than the flesh. When you look to the indwelling Spirit to live the Christian life, He comes to you and meets you in that moment to enable you to live the Christian life.

To be honest, it is far easier to think of the Christian life as just being concerned with rules and us just buckling down and doing them while ignoring all this stuff about the Spirit and reckoning, faith, etc. This is Phariseeism and results in burnout. Transformation is not from the outside in, it is from the inside and works outward. God gives grace to the humble. Admit that in and of yourself you cannot live the Christian life. When testings and trials and temptations come to you, keep your focus on the new life of the newborn spirit man in you empowered by the Holy Spirit and draw on the power he supplies to overcome all that stands in your way.

But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. 2 Cor. 3:18

Again, there is truth in both sides, discipline/self-control and walking in the power of the Spirit. Let us respect each side and not let this subject become a contentious issue like the Calvinism/Arminianism debate.

 2017/1/26 10:46Profile









 Re:

Hebrews 11:6, "Without belief it is impossible to please God."

Which means - without believing God's truth, it is impossible to please Him.

So do you really believe what God had said about you?

Do you believe that when Christ died you died with Him?
Do you believe That when He rose from the dead you were with Him?

Do you believe that you are now a new Creation? - That you are holy and are now the righteousness of God In Christ?

Do you believe that Christ Himself actually dwells in you, abides in you and you are now in perfect union with Him?

Yes this is 100% literal - not positional - You must believe and TAKE it.

 2017/1/26 10:51
jujashan4
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Joined: 2009/1/11
Posts: 77


 Re:

Greg - Hi :-) I think you may think TUC is saying something beyond what he's actually saying? Not sure but it just seems you're responding to things that weren't actually said?
The article didn't say anything about it being ok to be unrighteous

Todd - Somewhere the scripture says "make every effort to enter His rest" - at least I think that's what it says - how would you explain that to somebody?

In one of his books Roy Hession quotes Major Ian Thomas as saying, something like this "... we think the resources of the Christian life are prayer, bible reading, going to church ... But the resource of the Christian is Christ Himself."

I'm pretty sure you will find the same teaching as in the original article on sermonindex in the teaching of Norman Grubb, Roy Hession, Major Ian Thomas and more.

I believe the negative reactions to it are because you think it's saying something beyond what it says. Sorry if I'm wrong.

Love and appreciate you my brothers and sisters.


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Andrew Wales

 2017/1/26 11:00Profile
Heydave
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Joined: 2008/4/12
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 Re: tuc

Quote: "Hebrews 11:6, "Without belief it is impossible to please God."

Which means - without believing God's truth, it is impossible to please Him."


Maybe this is the crux of misunderstanding. Faith is NOT just believing a set of truths. Biblical faith according to Hebrews 11, James, etc has corresponding action. It absolutely is believing what God says, but is then acted upon. faith without works (action) is dead (i.e. not real faith).

tuc, can I ask how you understand 2 Peter 1:3-7? In particular what does it mean to be diligent to add to your faith.. self contril, etc?

Edit: corrected scripture reference.
Also Hebrews 11 says "But without faith it is impossible to please Him" FAITH not believing. They're not the same thing. What translation are you using??


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Dave

 2017/1/26 11:05Profile
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
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 Re:

This thread is not Calvinistic view vs Armanianistic view. It is vs DO NOTHING Christianity vs Biblical Christianity. There is clearly deception and lie in the original article. I am not surprised that many are not able to identify it here.

A simple question, if we have already become like Jesus if we believe, then why should we purify ourself like 1 John 3:3. I does 1 John 1 say that if we say we do not have sin then we make him a liar? Why is no one including Apostle Paul lived completely like Jesus lived (the perfect life)? If Paul too lacked the faith and belief that he has already become like Jesus? Or is Christianity a failure, that only speaks theory and practically impossible to live out?

There is human responsibility to sanctification. Any one who denies it makes himself a liar. Any article that denies it is also a lie, no matter how cleverly the lie is hidden.

I am more interested to know the personal testimony of those who believe in such DO NOTHING Christianity. Did they really believe they are living as Jesus lived? I am not interested in such theories, but want to know their life. How is their personal life, are they free from adultery of all form including lusting of eye? How is their family life? How is their fellowship with wife and children? How have they raised their children? If their life is not showing any Christlikeness in these areas then their belief is a lie. Jesus is just a theory to them.


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Sreeram

 2017/1/26 11:11Profile
TMK
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Posts: 6650
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 Re:

Quote:"In one of his books Roy Hession quotes Major Ian Thomas as saying, something like this "... we think the resources of the Christian life are prayer, bible reading, going to church ... But the resource of the Christian is Christ Himself."

True but how do we enter into this? Much of it is by the things listed. So it is like circular reasoning.


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Todd

 2017/1/26 11:13Profile
jujashan4
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Joined: 2009/1/11
Posts: 77


 Re:

Through faith brother Todd.

... For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed that is by faith from first to last." - or from faith to faith.

It's all I believe, about full surrender to the Lord and faith in (leaning on) Him - the risen Lord
And being filled with His Spirit.

It's certainly not "do nothing Christianity" Sree but more like John 15 apart from me you can do nothing - if you abide in me and my words abide in you you will bear much fruit showing yourselves to be my disciples

Remember in Galatians Paul talks of the fruit of the Spirit. Some believers think we must try to "do" these but in fact they are indeed the Spirits fruit or they show that the Holy Spirit is there. So as the believer walks trusting in the Lord - given over to His will - filled with the Holy Spirit the fruit are evident.

Trust on the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding

The book "They Found The Secret" may be helpful.



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Andrew Wales

 2017/1/26 11:42Profile
yuehan
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Joined: 2011/6/15
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 Re:

Paraphrasing from someone else: "It is right believing that produces right living, not the other way round."

That has been my experience.


 2017/1/26 12:50Profile
sermonindex
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 Re:

Quote:

How do you do that? By believing the truth God's gifts are already yours, you just need to believe it.

We just need to cooperate with Him by believing what He says is truth.

You can believe GOD - NOW

This is the requirement - He even supplies the faith you need.

Believe what? What God has said about you.

You were actually with and in Christ - when He died on the cross.

When He rose from the dead you were there with Him and in Him.

His Life is NOW yours - His PERFECT obedience is now yours.
His Perfect Righteousness is now yours.

IT IS DONE!! Stand fast in the Liberty in WHICH HE WAS SET YOU FREE!!

Believe it NOW - Take it NOW




Quote:
"Hebrews 11:6, "Without belief it is impossible to please God."



Tuc, (not sure your real name)

What you are sharing has some elements of truth, as the Word of God says we are saved by the death and blood of Jesus Christ. But it does not say just "believe" in all things and not "do." Wiithout "faith" it is impossible to "PLEASE" God and "faith" without works is dead.

From all my readings and study of contemporary christianity, it seems you are either quoting or re-packaging Joseph Prince and others like him who are preaching what some are terming: Hyper Grace.

What you are sharing does not conform to the belief of the featured sermons and speakers on this website as I believe it is border-line a false gospel. Modern preachers are seeking to present the cross without a cross. They are preserving the man and not preaching self-denial.

I encourage you to watch this video documentary we shared:

HYPER GRACE Documentary (feat. Dr. Michael Brown, David Ravenhill and Eric Ludy)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtRVWeoNuvw

also:

What is Hyper Grace? by Shane Idleman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om1HgBIkzdA

Hyper-Grace and Religious Hypocrisy In The Last Days - (Carter Conlon, Zac Poonen)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1X4qrqB_H0

Hyper-Grace The Great Deception of the 21st Century by Michael L. Brown
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEQj9sBEOEw


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2017/1/26 13:16Profile





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