Poster | Thread | BranchinVINE Member
Joined: 2016/6/15 Posts: 1268 Australia
| Re: A New Creation IN Christ Jesus | | “Therefore if anyone is IN CHRIST, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.” (2 Cor. 5:17 NASB, my emphasis in caps)
“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, FOR APART FROM ME YOU CAN DO NOTHING. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.” (John 15:5-6, my emphasis in caps)
“And he who is JOINED to the Lord is one spirit;” (1 Cor. 6:17 YLT, my emphasis in caps)
Edit to add:
“...so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us IN Christ Jesus.” (Eph. 2:7, my emphasis in caps)
_________________ Jade
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| 2016/12/1 1:37 | Profile | JFW Member
Joined: 2011/10/21 Posts: 2009 Dothan, Alabama
| Re: | | Yes dear sister! I confess each of those to be true as well:) I'm sorry you found my words or even the concept of my understanding so offensive,... that wasn't my intention. I think bother Todd-TMK said it succinctly when he said that grace wouldn't be needed in heaven.... that's just consistent with my understanding of what grace is and its function in us, I mean if "where sin abounds, grace abounds all the more" and we know there is no sin in heaven.... see where I'm going? Not asking you to agree so much as can you see the train of logic being followed that leads to this conclusion? So in that line of thought,... the sap flows from the vine thru the branches to produce fruit. The sap/grace would only be necessary till the fruit was harvested... Hope that helps (not to convince you but) to explain where I'm coming from:) _________________ Fletcher
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| 2016/12/1 7:34 | Profile | BranchinVINE Member
Joined: 2016/6/15 Posts: 1268 Australia
| Re: | | Fletcher,
Are you the branch or the fruit???
Edit to add:
I did not find your words or your understanding offensive. I just do not agree with you at all that there is no grace in heaven.
_________________ Jade
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| 2016/12/1 7:38 | Profile | dolfan Member
Joined: 2011/8/23 Posts: 1727 Tennessee, but my home's in Alabama
| Re: | | Reading over the NT verses that contain a form of the word "grace" it looks like grace is given for various purposes. Grace is purpose oriented, I guess. God is the giver and source of every good and perfect thing, and certainly He gives grace. I cannot find a proof text, but God being a God with His own purposes, and His purposes never ending, won't grace always be an element of our relationship with Him? Can we do anything without Him? No, we know better than that.
I am not jumbled or jammed up on the question, but God's goodness extends to us most completely in the resurrection and eternal life. He has saved us to that. It is a bounty to us. I can't get my mind around that not being grace. Am I missing something? _________________ Tim
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| 2016/12/1 8:23 | Profile | BranchinVINE Member
Joined: 2016/6/15 Posts: 1268 Australia
| Re: | | Dear Fletcher,
Is grace to you just for the forgiveness of sin? if so, then I can see why you believe that there is no need for grace in heaven. To me, grace is also needed to live the Christian life that is pleasing to God. And to me it is also needed to supply all our needs and to give us every spiritual blessing.
If you believe that grace is not needed in heaven, how will you live your life in heaven? Will you be an independent, self-sufficient being who does not need anything from God at all? If there is no grace, can you even have access to any of the unsearchable riches of Christ? To me the fullness of God dwells in Christ alone and we can only have access to that when we are joined to Christ.
Union with Christ is the most precious thing to me. Christ is the great Vine and I am so blessed to be a branch in Him, totally dependent on Him. As His branch, I have a life of complete rest and joy and peace. I have nothing in myself. He gives me everything moment by moment as I abide in Him. This is so now and will be so in eternity.
If our understanding of grace is different then it will be fruitless to continue this discussion.
God bless you.
_________________ Jade
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| 2016/12/1 9:08 | Profile | JFW Member
Joined: 2011/10/21 Posts: 2009 Dothan, Alabama
| Re: | | Brother Tim, Your outline is almost identical to my wife's understanding and we've had some very fruitful discussions where we've both been challenged to expand and or refine our understanding.
Sister Jade,
You ask if I believe that grace forgives sin?... No ma'am not at all tho it does empower the believer (just as you outlined) to bear acceptable fruit unto God.
You ask if I/we are the branch or fruit? In my understanding, according to scripture, we are both and perhaps this is where the disconnect is occurring. We seem to share a common understanding of what grace is but maybe we differ on its function and what's more, it's ultimate purpose.
In any case I have no quarrel on the matter, and neither of our positions (for me) cause any sort of break in fellowship:)
Thank you again for your patience with me and we all abound in Christ! _________________ Fletcher
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| 2016/12/1 9:58 | Profile | Elibeth Member
Joined: 2011/8/14 Posts: 1148
| Re: | | May I invoke another thought here concerning Grace ln the hereafter?
If sin will be done away with in the hereafter,..will have no more pull on us,...if sin is non-existant, done away with forever, then why Would we need grace?
We know Grace is, unmerited favor, a gift, we do / did not deserve this mercy and much necessary and enabling, help,...enabling power to do His / The King / the Kingdom ' will,..
Grace: The Divine inflence upon the heart and it's reflection in the Life.
(1) The Divine inflence upon the heart,... ( The hearing / drawing of His Word Spirit.
(2) And it's reflection in the life / Life,.... The doing of the Word, ... Spirit.
So, in most kindness,I ask,...I do not understand, ....why would we still need grace?
Thoughts , ------------ elizabeth |
| 2016/12/1 10:25 | Profile | TMK Member
Joined: 2012/2/8 Posts: 6650 NC, USA
| Re: | | My thoughts too Elizabeth. _________________ Todd
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| 2016/12/1 10:26 | Profile |
| Re: | | Maybe these verses will deepen our inderstanding of grace.
Titus 2:11-14 (NASB)
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.
-bbs- |
| 2016/12/1 10:38 | | JFW Member
Joined: 2011/10/21 Posts: 2009 Dothan, Alabama
| Re: | | Brother Bear,
That passage, for me, is a prime example of the function and purpose of divine grace, and to echo sister Elizabeth and brother Todd in the context of this passage of scripture... why when in heaven there would be no ungodliness would grace still be needed to deny it? _________________ Fletcher
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| 2016/12/1 10:44 | Profile |
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