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forrests
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Joined: 2016/3/11
Posts: 301


 Re:

Quote:
by savannah on 2016/8/24 21:45:09

What the Grace of God teaches us;

Titus 2:11For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ; 14Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify to himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

15These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise you.



Amen, brother. Amen. I worry that those who see God's grace as a license to 'save [their] lives' know very little about grace.

Liberty is not being free to do my own will - I had that liberty at one point...and then I repented and was born again. True liberty is freedom from the bondage of self and my own will and having the true grace of God working in me to will and to do His good pleasure. That is liberty and grace.

Also, for those who seem to believe I am preoccupied with this topic and don't preach the whole council of God (the best way I know how) - I guess those commenting in the "Mark of the Beast" thread only know that and harp only on that string and need to talk about the grace of God...or any other thread. No? I'm making a point, and I perceive that others are making a lot of assumptions.


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~ Forrest

 2016/8/25 1:17Profile
JFW
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Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1409
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brother Mark

I really appreciated your last post and find it to be a timely word:)

Had been thinking much the same thing tho you are more articulate than I prolly would've been-

Thanks for the humility and earnestness in your response:)


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Fletcher

 2016/8/25 1:48Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

I say amen to your posts to forest ,can't realy fault it .

You only saying what the old saints have said for years .

If a revivle comes ,thoses who are effected by it will think the same ,

Who cares about what this world can offer us ,when the holy spirt gives new desires of the heart , when that manfest presence takes over nothing matters but god and communing with him ,and intersection and witnessing,


Last I checked the gifts of the spirit didn't include the holy ability to watch tv , ,if your truly moving in the spirit of prayer and supplication,under the anointing , none of mundane things of this world come close to pleasures of the spirit .

I can hear Duncan Campbell ,,,,,revival !!!!! Revival !!!!
When God stepped down !

 2016/8/25 1:54Profile
StirItUp
Member



Joined: 2016/6/4
Posts: 949
Johannesburg, South Africa

 Re:

Fitting scripture Savannah.

Kinda sums it all up!

Blessings,


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William

 2016/8/25 2:22Profile
forrests
Member



Joined: 2016/3/11
Posts: 301


 Re: Too good to let it get buried

I found this to be a very faithful word, and read it to my family. I want to re-post it in case some didn't see it:

The Great God Entertainment
by A.W.Tozer

A German philosopher many years ago said something to the effect that the more a man has in his own heart, the less he will require from the outside; excessive need for support from without is proof of the bankruptcy of the inner man.

If this is true (and I believe it is) then the present inordinate attachment to every form of entertainment is evidence that the inner life of modern man is in serious decline. The average man has no central core of moral assurance, no spring within his own breast, no inner strength to place him above the need for repeated psychological shots to give him the courage to go on living. He has become a parasite on the world, drawing his life from his environment, unable to live a day apart from the stimulation which society affords him.

Schleiermacher held that the feeling of dependence lies at the root of all religious worship, and that however high the spiritual life might rise, it must always begin with a deep sense of a great need which only God could satisfy.

If this sense of need and a feeling of dependence are at the root of natural religion, it is not hard to see why the great god Entertainment is so ardently worshiped by so many. For there are millions who cannot live without amusement; life without some form of entertainment for them is simply intolerable; they look forward to the blessed relief afforded by professional entertainers and other forms of psychological narcotics as a dope addict looks to his daily shot of heroin. Without them they could not summon courage to face existence.

No one with common human feeling will object to the simple pleasures of life, nor to such harmless forms of entertainment as may help to relax the nerves and refresh the mind exhausted by toil. Such things, if used with discretion, may be a blessing along the way. That is one thing, however, the all-out devotion to entertainment as a major activity for which and by which men live is definitely something else again.

The abuse of a harmless thing is the essence of sin. The growth of the amusement phase of human life to such fantastic proportions is a portent, a threat to the souls of modern men. It has been built into a multimillion dollar racket with greater power over human minds and human character than any other educational influence on earth.

And the ominous thing is that its power is almost exclusively evil, rotting the inner life, crowding out the long eternal thoughts which would fill the souls of men, if they were but worthy to entertain them. The whole thing has grown into a veritable religion which holds its devotees with a strange fascination; and a religion, incidentally, against which it is now dangerous to speak. For centuries the Church stood solidly against every form of worldly entertainment, recognizing it for what it was—a device for wasting time, a refuge from the disturbing voice of conscience, a scheme to divert attention from moral accountability.

For this she got herself abused roundly by the sons of this world. But of late she has become tired of the abuse and has given over the struggle. She appears to have decided that if she cannot conquer the great god Entertainment she may as well join forces with him and make what use she can of his powers.So, today we have the astonishing spectacle of millions of dollars being poured into the unholy job of providing earthly entertainment for the so-called sons of heaven. Religious entertainment is in many places rapidly crowding out the serious things of God.
Many churches these days have become little more than poor theaters where fifth-rate "producers" peddle their shoddy wares with the full approval of evangelical leaders who can even quote a holy text in defense of their delinquency. And hardly a man dares raise his voice against it.

The great god Entertainment amuses his devotees mainly by telling them stories. The love of stories, which is a characteristic of childhood, has taken fast hold of the minds of the retarded saints of our day, so much so that not a few persons manage to make a comfortable living by spinning yarns and serving them up in various disguises to church people.

What is natural and beautiful in a child may be shocking when it persists into adulthood, and more so when it appears in the sanctuary and seeks to pass for true religion. Is it not a strange thing and a wonder that, with the shadow of atomic destruction hanging over the world and with the coming of Christ drawing near, the professed followers of the Lord should be giving themselves up to religious amusements? That in an hour when mature saints are so desperately needed vast numbers of believers should revert to spiritual childhood and clamor for religious toys?

"Remember, 0 Lord, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. The crown is fallen from our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned ! For this our heart is faint; for these things our eyes are dim." AMEN. AMEN.

Taken from Root of the Righteous, Harrisburg, PA: Christian Publications, 1955, p. 32-33.

Taken from this blog: http://theconstructivecurmudgeon.blogspot.com/2006/07/w-tozer-on-our-idol-entertainment-1955.html?m=1


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~ Forrest

 2016/8/25 2:48Profile









 Re:

Quote:
by StirItUp on 2016/8/25 2:22:28

Fitting scripture Savannah.

Kinda sums it all up!

Blessings,



Amen, great scripture!

 2016/8/25 2:52
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
...it is clear and definitive in it's definition.It may be subjective in it's application...which leads to your question..


My friend, there no qualifier for what constitutes vanity under the New Covenant, no list of activities, no specific topic of conversation. This is because the vanity of a given activity is not determined by rote external observation, but rather by the condition of the heart. Me posting this very response to you may be considered "vain", if the motive of my heart in doing it is less than sincere. In fact, some of the most outstanding and morally-upright actions on the exterior (which no reasonable religious person would consider vain), such as scripture memorization and Christian forum participation can be sprung from the wells of vanity if the hidden intentions are off. Only the Holy Spirit can search the heart and make this determination. I know you know this.

Quote:
In my eyes, that seems to border on a type of "spiritual enthusiasm" and seems a bit like post-modern subjectivity...a veering from the objective and universal nature of Truth toward a more "personal truth" and a general and definitive revelation of God's will and mind on certain matters to an "inward" one to each individual.


Again, if you can produce a definitive list of actions the Holy Spirit has deemed as "vain" for all believers which preclude the individual motive of the heart (in other words, conclusively objective), such as enjoying a Greek tragedy or observing an athletic competition or philosophical debate -- all of which were prevalent in Paul's day, yet unlisted by God as actions proscribed -- then I will side with you. I agree that all these "can" be vain. But there are no such religious codes or regulations or requirements to be found under the New Covenant other than to show charity to the poor and love your neighbor as yourself. And even these we do out of joy, propelled naturally by God's love and grace toward us. When filled with the Spirit one cannot help but reciprocate love, for God is love.

When I am filled with God's love, I do not pour out a laundry list of "do's and dont's" on another believer in response, but more love. I admonish them in love, I exhort them in love (though not always, to my shame). I try to become sensitive that with all things being lawful in Christ, not all things are yet edifying.

No man or woman truly apprehended by God's Holy Spirit will continue in sin habitually. It is as impossible as a dead man suddenly sitting up in a casket at a funeral home. Along the way, as we journey and grow in Christ, we have setbacks and failings, and also times of great joy and excitement! In our young years, we are tempted to make lists of things Christians should and should not do. This is understandable. Babes need great guidance, until they are old enough to stand and walk --- and then as a teenager they are introduced to the essentials...and hopefully begin putting them into practice! We go from milk to gradually meat. I see the meat as Christ, and Christ alone: the implications of finality regarding His death and resurrection, the believer's henceforth spiritual position of sonship in Him, and He being hidden in God with us in Him and all this being decreed by the will of God before the foundation of the world. Is this not real meat to chew on and ruminate upon!

Quote:
If your position were universally true, where would the need for pastors and teachers be? Or prophets? That is the job of an elder brother, to use his wisdom and revelation to help be another set of eyes for his brother. It should be the desire of a truly born again believer to seek to glorify God with their bodies, and to offer their bodies to God as a living sacrifice (for it is clearly their duty) - and if this desire is in them, they should welcome the other members of Christ's body that help complete them where they are lacking. We are all just a part.


The purpose for all you mention is in the perfecting of the saints. Just as my seven year old son needs a teacher. The best teacher on earth is the one who teaches a child how to teach himself by fostering a sincere love for the subject. Likewise, the best teacher/pastor/elder is one who shows the younger brother or sister the ineffable glory and riches of Christ's love and grace, and how to access it themselves. It is he who shows the new believer their position in the Son of God, and reminds them of it over and over again. That instead of condemnation codes governing hairlength and going to the movies or listening to a pop song on the radio, they are directed to the Source Himself who alone has sole authority in actually naming specific vanities which are as custom to the individual as their prayers are to God.




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Paul Frederick West

 2016/8/25 10:22Profile
forrests
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Joined: 2016/3/11
Posts: 301


 Re: PaulWest

It seems pretty clear to me that you are not understanding what I am saying. I am talking about entertainment (ignore the words "vain" and "amusements" if it helps).

I am discussing the Christian seeking to fulfill a longing inside with the dross of the world instead of the pure gold of Christ.

That is what I am seeking to bring attention to.

Have you read the A.W. Tozer article below, "The Great God of Entertainment"?

Do you mind commenting on that? If you would..?


_________________
~ Forrest

 2016/8/25 10:32Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

My friend, I am only using those terms because you chose them as a title to this thread. But I can discuss entertainment with you if you wish.

Yes, I've read the article. In fact, there were several years where Tozer and Ravenhill were all I read. I am inspired by their fiery positions on holiness and sanctification. But I do have my reservations with them, knowing that even the best of men are men at best.

Are you aware that what we are doing now is form of entertainment that can be used to fulfill the same longing? And if so, it can be construed as vain. My point is that drawing black and white lines such as Tozer often did is not always so easy. Because appearances can be deceiving. Tozer did not have light on certain things. I also do not have light on certain things. Tozer had a lot of very good things to say, for sure, but his articles and books are not scripture and as such they should be digested with a grain of salt and discernment.


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Paul Frederick West

 2016/8/25 10:53Profile
forrests
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Joined: 2016/3/11
Posts: 301


 Re: The Great God of Entertainment

Quote:
by forrests

Do you mind commenting on that? If you would..?



Quote:
by PaulWest on 2016/8/25 7:53:54

My friend, I am only using those terms because you chose them as a title to this thread. But I can discuss entertainment with you if you wish.

Yes, I've read the article. In fact, there were several years where Tozer and Ravenhill were all I read. I am inspired by their fiery positions on holiness and sanctification. But I do have my reservations with them, knowing that even the best of men are men at best.

Are you aware that what we are doing now is form of entertainment that can be used to fulfill the same longing? And if so, it can be construed as vain. My point is that drawing black and white lines such as Tozer often did is not always so easy. Because appearances can be deceiving. Tozer did not have light on certain things. I also do not have light on certain things. Tozer had a lot of very good things to say, for sure, but his articles and books are not scripture and as such they should be digested with a grain of salt and discernment.



You didn't comment on the article...

...and when I see Jesus, I see all kinds of "black and white lines"...ones that the modern "mature" Christian avoid at all costs and criticize believers for believing and repeating...

...I suppose this conversation is not going to be profitable...


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~ Forrest

 2016/8/25 11:30Profile





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