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Joined: 2005/11/19
Posts: 94



I agree with your post. It lines up with some things the Lord showed me last December about anti-semitism being on the rise. It's camouflaged now with some people testing the waters but anti-semitism is going to become very current, flagrant, and in your face...

 2016/8/4 12:52Profile

Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1632


Neil, that may be the post of the century, my brother. I love that. I post too much anyway. Man that's good.


 2016/8/4 12:56Profile


Hi Neil, totally agree with that post. Would love to discuss it with you on the phone, in the phone tag status, right now your "it." :) You might notice that I have not been indulging anyone in theological stances for quite sometime for the reasons you stated and others..............bro Frank

 2016/8/4 14:19


Yes, our God appoints and soveriegnly controls a lot of things, but what is often his means to ends? People. Actions. He is still Soveriegn, but that doesn't mean we are necessarily "totally checked out"

 2016/8/4 16:39


That's a non-sequitur argument from silence anyways. Can you tell show me where Jesus said specifically "do not vote"? Or "do not speak out on abortion" (& who is president has potential Abortion implications, potentially more in this generation than any prior due to the supremes court and age of the justices). Etc.? No, there's no scriptural substantiation for this whatsoever. I pray. If the Lord leads me to not vote, I don't (which was the case in 2012 honestly). I prayed this time & I think I've shared the dream here already on SI concerning Hillary Clinton. I am not some Trump dumby or super excited about him as president, but I see it as a somewhat unknown & Hillary as clearly bad known (& my dream confirmed & supported that). So, in the absolutizing stance again, I will say voting neither is where your ultimate trust should be, nor are you necessarily "putting all your trust in the kingdom's of this world" because you do vote. I'm sure many told William Wilberforce, Martin Luther King, etc. not to focus on temporal earthly political matters. And I'm sure many have accused William Carey of not focusing on the Gospel in India because he set his heart on abolishing satey (burning widows alive). Many theologians of his day criticized Spurgeon for "being focused on orphanages and not the preaching of the Gospel". Spurgeon of course ignored such criticisms and we don't know those theologians names today do we? And the famous quote of Charles Spurgeon he said " and let the God who answers by orphanages be God". 😉 So such theoretical theological arguments have been made down through the centuries

 2016/8/4 17:18

 I'm "It"?!?

oh no Frank....I lost your number....can you forgive me for being such a narcissistic self absorbed crummy friend...or is it "brother?"

its in my winny the pooh phonebook, and I CANT FIND THE THING!!!!!!!!

oh bother.

 2016/8/4 17:39

 Re: I'm "It"?!?

I'm afraid I have too much of the Anabaptist convictions in me. They identified with Jesus in John 18 when He said my kingdom is not of this world. They saw the kingdom of Jesus as a spiritual reality where Jesus ruled in the hearts of men and women. The Anabaptist brethren would not be involved in the state. Though they obeyed the laws of the state provided those laws would not conflict with the gospel. But these brothers and sisters would not serve in the armed forces or take oaths of allegiance to the state. They took very seriously the words of Jesus in The Sermon on the Mount.

It is at this point I find their simple faith and obedience to Jesus to be very refreshing. The anabaptist example have guided my involvement in politics. Namely that I stay out of politics.

Best to stay focused on Jesus and His kingdom and to stay out of the political Kingdom of man.

Simply my thoughts.

 2016/8/4 20:06

Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5503


Bear I agree that the KOG is not of this world.

You may choose not to vote but there are probably hundreds of other areas where you do participate in the systems of this world. We all do, unless we are living off the grid in outer slobovia.

Voting is a privilege that we have here. To not cast a vote for a person, if only to keep a very evil person out of office, seems irresponsible to me. To me that is akin to letting people starve in India rather than feeding them a sacred bull.

We can help slow the degradation of society with a vote. Why in the world would we not want to do so? Where would the country had been if Stephen Douglas had defeated Lincoln?


 2016/8/4 20:34Profile

Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2054

 Re: The post election world for Christians


Are you, or any others for that matter, prophesying that what you have written shall come to pass, or is it merely your personal belief/opinion?

Straight up question! Please give a straight up answer.

 2016/8/4 20:52Profile

Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1409
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brother Jeff

Firstly, thank you for taking the time to respond and doing so in such a way that reveals the depth of your knowledge/study and your heart on the matter as I can honestly appreciate both:) Also being the father of 6 boys and knowing you have recently been blessed with your 7th beloved child, I can relate to your general disposition as presented here on SI and often times have felt a kinship with you through your words and even tho sometimes I'm sure we might see a thing from dif sides, your heart and love for the things of God is not only admirable but encouraging:)

It seems on this particular subject I may have been so specific so as to be vague, if that makes sense. Meaning that because I elevated the Kingdom of God without acknowledging the role of man within it that I may have unwittingly lead you to believe that I have no concern or am apathetic to it as if to be somehow aloof or detached. If that is the case, and from your response it would seem so, I have misrepresented myself and appreciate the opportunity to clarify.

It's not that there was an intent on my part to "call out" or rebuke any of the contributors to this thread, rather to simply inject a dif perspective (which seemed appropriate) in light of the tendency of these types of discussions to digress rather quickly. The purpose of doing so is/was to highlight our common foundation (Jesus is King) our common objective (advancing His kingdom) and the fact that at the end of the day today and the day after the election of the new POTUS, that hasn't and will not change in spite of who sits in the oval office. The end I had in mind was to make our prime directive as children of God be more of the point of reference for this discussion rather than it becoming increasingly more speculative based on presumptions. For me, if our prime directive is the starting point of this discussion then we are actually being profitable to the cause itself whereas if it is not then nothing we do or say even has the potential to be profitable to the cause of Christ as its merely speculation.
The question I posed to you was based solely on your misunderstanding my position (which I accept responsibility for) and your rather demeaning comment saying that it was "laughable" which I take no offense to because it in and of itself is a mischaracterization of said position as no one was suggesting we should be or that I was myself "totally checked out".

Having said all of this, you asked me wether there are clear scriptures saying we shouldn't vote and what not...
Yes, for me at least there are, in fact the whole of it declares it so and here's where... This is not our home, we seek a city whose foundation is righteousness, the earthly systems themselves are founded in mans attempt to enthrone himself and establish his own rule which is itself a foundation of corruption,.. we are to live in this world but not of it. We cannot become conformed into the image of Christ by feeding on the world and its lust which (for me) we do when we feed the system of corruption itself by participating in it. If our time is spent serving that, then it cannot at the same time be spent serving God. This leads to an identity issue whereby we attempt to simultaneously identify ourselves with two inherently incompatable systems of rule. Doing this leads to the advancement of one and the weakening of the other. So in your observations, since Christians have become politicized in an effort to influence politics has the church gotten stronger or weaker? She (the church) has undeniably grown in political power, in financial capacity, in attendance, etc...tho at the same time digressed and become impoverished spiritually to the point of being herself incapable to facilitate that for which she was created. This (I believe) has allot to do with the fact we (the church) have become charmed to the point of intoxication by the power offered by the political sphere and our utter and complete betrayal of the church as she was founded and given to us by the apostolic example.
So (from my perspective) since neither Jesus nor any of the apostles were ever recorded to have spent their time speculating about or helping to advance the kingdom of man but were consumed with the work, compelled by the love of God, to advance His kingdom here on earth and set before us an example all while commanding us to follow it. Then yeah bro it's mostly a waste of time and in fact serves the wrong kingdom (albeit in ignorance) unless at the very least our starting point is the prime directive of advancing the Kingdom of God. Because at the end of the day we are all advancing one or the other wether we meant to or not.

Being a Christian doesn't mean everything we do is sanctified,... Being a Christian means everything that is sanctified is what we should be doing.
And brother I haven't found that Christ has set apart politics so as to make them a holy thing. Having said this, if you or anyone believes the Lord is calling them to vote or serve this political system in whatever way then I say be faithful to your conviction and not to man's opinion, but please dear brother, going toward don't be so quick to dismiss another brothers sincere perspective and comment on it in a way that is unbecoming of one who has been cleansed by the blood of Christ.


 2016/8/5 1:28Profile

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