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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Jesus or Theology

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Joined: 2006/9/16
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 Re:

/Also, I know many men who have come from Seminary more learned and still lovers of Jesus. Why on earth are we bashing other believers who may have been instructed and led by the Spirit to go to those places!? Who are you to judge another's servant? Were you not dead in your own trespasses and sins and then brought under the covenant, not by your own strength of will, but by the awesome grace of Jesus Christ? Who are you to say that someone who was treated equally with grace is ruining their lives by attending a place where they can learn about Jesus? You don't know what is being taught to them. Maybe they are being instructed well, but your assumption is that they are nothing more than corpse./

I can agree with that.

14 You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them;

15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation throuigh faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching (doctrine), for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness,

17 that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. (II Timothy 3:14-17)

If a person has been taught, reproved, corrected and trained in righteousness by the Word so as to become a man or woman of God who is adeuately prtepared for every good work that then is the definition of a true disciple. If you continue and abide in My Word, then you are truly disciples of Mine.

Meanwhile, are pastors and teachers to never study any type of theology at all?


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David Winter

 2016/7/12 8:48Profile
StirItUp
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Joined: 2016/6/4
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Johannesburg, South Africa

 Re:

Hi brother David,

I think we all have to agree with the importance of scripture and the revelation of God and of Jesus Christ found in scripture, when the Holy Spirit opens it up to us.

From your post:"Meanwhile, are pastors and teachers to never study any type of theology at all?"

This could start a whole new conversation :)

The church is a spiritual body, first of all, members of the spiritual body of Christ. The head, Jesus Christ, gives gifts to men, gifts to pastor, gifts to teach, etc etc

So important that we first recognize and discern the gift and then hone and polish that gift in the power of the Holy Spirit and with wise use of the Word of God.

If one sees what the fruit is of so many "theological" colleges, it is quite scary.

Probably the best such training should take place within body context where the training is not theoretical but intensely practical and where the mature in Christ disciple the young ones as they live in relationship with one another?


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William

 2016/7/12 9:17Profile
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Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1244
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:

Brother William,
That is very close to my understanding of what the scriptures prescribe...
The purpose of the ministry is to equip to go into the world and share the good news,... The purpose of most seminaries is to go into the church and teach doctrine...

It's no wonder how each month we read of another denominations capitulation to the world when they're spending millions not to convert, but to be like the world...


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Fletcher

 2016/7/12 9:35Profile









 Re:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:

THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU, THEY ARE SPIRIT, AND THEY ARE LIFE." (John 6:63)

Selah!!

That's good enough for me.

 2016/7/12 9:37
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 Re:

/Probably the best such training should take place within body context where the training is not theoretical but intensely practical and where the mature in Christ disciple the young ones as they live in relationship with one another?/

I can certainly agree with that and wish it were so.

From my experience, not all formal training in the scriptures is entirely theoretical. Really, many Bible college and seminaries require students to get involved somewhere in the local area preferably in whatever field or ministry they may feel called to. Music ministers are given a chance to be involved. Teachers in training are given opportunities to teach. Children's ministers are asked to work with children. Etc. etc. Real life involvement that matures and gives one experience beyond the theoretical. Future pastors are watched for character qualifications to go along with their formal training in the scriptures. Evangelists are recognized and encouraged. Many seminaries and colleges have outreaches in their own city and have sent missionaries to foreign lands. I know several people who graduated from seminary and became missionaries in foreign lands. Wise seminary training seeks to round out its students by practical training in the scriptures combined with real life involvement and contact that goes beyond the theoretical. Having said that, I have no sympathy or prayers for the false seminaries that are teaching outside Bible perimeters and enbracing sin. But there are solid orthodox seminaries across the world that are not doing such a bad job. They usually send their students into local church settings for the purpose of teaching or pastoring and instruction and edifying of the body of Christ. Many arrive still needing to grow but how else can one develop spiritual gifts but to get involved? I would to the good Lord though that complete training in the scriptures for all believers could take place within a local church but the ideal is not the reality now. Yet most orthodox local churches are trying pretty hard and amen to that.

Blessings.


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David Winter

 2016/7/12 9:59Profile
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Joined: 2016/6/4
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 Re:

Agreed David.

Probably a lot of our problems go back to the organisational structures of our churches and its government?


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William

 2016/7/12 10:02Profile
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 Re:

/Agreed David.

Probably a lot of our problems go back to the organisational structures of our churches and its government?/

Yep, I was sitting here thinking of wineskins most local churches find themselves in and perhaps thereneeds to come a change in organizational wineskins. Meaning church organization and government may need to be tweaked a bit. I agree good bro.


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David Winter

 2016/7/12 10:05Profile
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Joined: 2016/6/4
Posts: 941
Johannesburg, South Africa

 Re:

Thanks for the posts so far brothers.

On my way home from work now...will pop in later again, God willing :)


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William

 2016/7/12 10:08Profile
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 Re:

/"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:

THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU, THEY ARE SPIRIT, AND THEY ARE LIFE." (John 6:63)

Selah!!

That's good enough for me./

If that means no study is really necessary or useful just give me the Spirit then I see it as a unbalanced statement.


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David Winter

 2016/7/12 10:08Profile
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Joined: 2008/9/14
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 Re:

Just some good verses that give a proper perspective on things. No commentary really needed on my part as they are self explanatory:

1 Timothy 4:12-16:

"Till I come, give attention to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine. Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given to you by prophecy with the laying on of the hands of the eldership. Meditate on these things; give yourself entirely to them, that your progress may be evident to all. Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you."


Titus 2:1-15:

"But as for you, speak the things which are proper for sound doctrine: that the older men be sober, reverent, temperate, sound in faith, in love, in patience; the older women likewise, that they be reverent in behavior, not slanderers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things—-that they admonish the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, chaste, homemakers, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be blasphemed. Likewise, exhort the young men to be sober-minded, in all things showing yourself to be a pattern of good works; in doctrine showing integrity, reverence, incorruptibility, sound speech that cannot be condemned, that one who is an opponent may be ashamed, having nothing evil to say of you. Exhort bondservants to be obedient to their own masters, to be well pleasing in all things, not answering back, not pilfering, but showing all good fidelity, that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in all things. For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you."

 2016/7/12 13:07Profile





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