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 Re:

The girl is lost. The two laws are meant for God's children. The two trees were in the garden of Eden and the law was given to His people under the Old Covenant.

We choose as believers which law we are under, working from the flesh or working from the Spirit.

 2016/5/28 18:27









 Re:

Quote:
by Tozsu on 2016/5/28 17:33:33

The law is the enemy of the flesh. It kills it. As soon as the flesh is dead the spirit can lead us. Therefore the law is the friend of the spirit.



"The enemy of my enemy has become my friend."

 2016/5/28 19:14
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 2009
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:

Ha! Brother Julius, that was good;)

Sister Zsuzsanna,

I really appreciate not only the wisdom but the undeniable grace that fills the words of your posts... It's a blessing to me:)


_________________
Fletcher

 2016/5/28 19:18Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 2009
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:

Wesley was once quoted as saying something like, "the law leads me to Christ, and Christ leads me to the law,...and this process continues till the work is finished" (paraphrasing from memory) But this reminds me of the process of refining silver,... The sliver is heated and looks pure but once an alkali is added all the dross from within comes to the surface and is scraped off,..then after cooling down the heat is again applied until the silver again looks pure and again the alkali is added and again the unseen dross becomes visible and surfaces only to be again scraped away,..this process continues over and over. The silversmith has to be very attentive because if the silver is over heated it's ruined as it is with too much alkali etc... So how does the silver smith know when the silver is truly purified...?
When He can see his own reflection in it;)


_________________
Fletcher

 2016/5/28 19:28Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

Various Quotes on the Law compiled by SI


Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones: "The trouble with people who are not seeking for a Savior, and for salvation, is that they do not understand the nature of sin. It is the peculiar function of the Law to bring such an understanding to a man’s mind and conscience. That is why great evangelical preachers 300 years ago in the time of the Puritans, and 200 years ago in the time of Whitefield and others, always engaged in what they called a preliminary 'Law work.'”
John Newton (wrote "Amazing Grace"): “Ignorance of the nature and design of the Law is at the bottom of most religious mistakes.”

Charles Spurgeon: “I do not believe that any man can preach the gospel who does not preach the Law.” Then he warns, “Lower the Law and you dim the light by which man perceives his guilt; this is a very serious loss to the sinner rather than a gain; for it lessens the likelihood of his conviction and conversion. I say you have deprived the gospel of its ablest auxiliary [its most powerful weapon] when you have set aside the Law. You have taken away from it the schoolmaster that is to bring men to Christ . . . They will never accept grace till they tremble before a just and holy Law. Therefore the Law serves a most necessary purpose, and it must not be removed from its place.”

Jonathan Edwards: “The only way we can know whether we are sinning is by knowing His Moral Law.”

George Whitefield said to his hearers, “First, then, before you can speak peace to your hearts, you must be made to see, made to feel, made to weep over, made to bewail, your actual transgressions against the Law of God.”

John Wesley: "...it is the ordinary method of the Spirit of God to convict sinners by the Law. It is this which, being set home on the conscience, generally breaketh the rocks in pieces. It is more especially this part of the Word of God which is quick and powerful, full of life and energy and sharper than any two-edged sword."

Martin Luther: "The first duty of the Gospel preacher is to declare God's Law and show the nature of sin."

John Wesley: "It remains only to show...the uses of the Law. And the first use of it, without question, is to convince the world of sin. By this is the sinner discovered to himself. All his fig-leaves are torn away, and he sees that he is 'wretched and poor and miserable, blind and naked.' The Law flashes conviction on every side. He feels himself a mere sinner. He has nothing to pay. His 'mouth is stopped' and he stands 'guilty before God.' To slay the sinner is then the first use of the Law, to destroy the life and strength wherein he trusts and convince him that he is dead while he lives; not only under the sentence of death, but actually dead to God, void of all spiritual life, dead in trespasses and sins."

Charles Spurgeon: "The Law cuts into the core of the evil, it reveals the seat of the malady, and informs us that the leprosy lies deep within."

C. S. Lewis: “When we merely say that we are bad, the ‘wrath’ of God seems a barbarous doctrine; as soon as we perceive our bad-ness, it appears inevitable, a mere corollary from God’s goodness…”

Martin Luther: "...we would not see nor realize it (what a distressing and horrible fall in which we lie), if it were not for the Law, and we would have to remain forever lost, if we were not again helped out of it through Christ. Therefore the Law and the Gospel are given to the end that we may learn to know both how guilty we are and to what we should again return."

J. I. Packer: "Unless we see our shortcomings in the light of the Law and holiness of God, we do not see them as sin at all."

Charles Finney: “Ever more the Law must prepare the way for the Gospel. To overlook this in instructing souls, is almost certain to result in false hope, the introduction of a false standard of Christian experience, and to fill the Church with false converts... time will make this plain.”

John Bunyan: “The man who does not know the nature of the Law, cannot know the nature of sin.”

D. L. Moody: “Ask Paul why [the Law] was given. Here is his answer, ‘That every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God’ (Romans 3:19). The Law stops every man’s mouth. I can always tell a man who is near the kingdom of God; his mouth is stopped. This, then, is why God gives us the Law-to show us ourselves in our true colors.”

A. W. Pink: “Just as the world was not ready for the New Testament before it received the Old, just as the Jews were not prepared for the ministry of Christ until John the Baptist had gone before Him with his claimant call to repentance, so the unsaved are in no condition today for the Gospel till the Law be applied to their hearts, for ‘by the Law is the knowledge of sin.’ It is a waste of time to sow seed on ground which has never been ploughed or spaded! To present the vicarious sacrifice of Christ to those whose dominant passion is to take fill of sin, is to give that which is holy to the dogs.”

Augustine: “The Law is not in fault, but our evil and wicked nature; even as a heap of lime is still and quiet until water be poured thereon, but then it begins to smoke and burn, not from the fault of the water, but from the nature and kind of the lime which will not endure it.”

Matthew Henry: “Herein is the Law of God above all other laws, that it is a spiritual law. Other laws may forbid compassing and imagining, which are treason in the heart, but cannot take cognizance thereof, unless there be some overt act; but the Law of God takes notice of the iniquity regarded in the heart, though it go no further.”

Martin Luther: “Satan, the God of all dissension, stirreth up daily new sects, and last of all, which of all other I should never have foreseen or once suspected, he has raised up a sect as such as teach…that men should not be terrified by the Law, but gently exhorted by the preaching of the grace of Christ.”

John Wesley: “While he cries out, O what love have I to thy Law! all the day long is my study in it. He sees daily, in that divine mirror, more and more of his own sinfulness. He sees more and more clearly, that he is fullness a sinner in all things -- that neither his heart nor his ways are right before God, and that every moment sends him to Christ.
“Therefore I cannot spare the Law one moment, no more than I can spare Christ, seeing I now want it as much to keep me to Christ, as I ever wanted it to bring me to Him. Otherwise this ‘evil heart of unbelief’ would immediately ‘depart from the living God.’ Indeed each is continually sending me to the other--the Law to Christ, and Christ to the Law.”

Martin Luther: In a sermon published way back in 1537, Martin Luther spoke of the Law being used as a schoolmaster the bring sinners to Christ. Listen to his words of warning:

“This now is the Christian teaching and preaching, which God be praised, we know and possess, and it is not necessary at present to develop it further, but only to offer the admonition that it be maintained in Christendom with all diligence. For Satan has attacked it hard and strong from the beginning until the present, and gladly would he completely extinguish it and tread it underfoot.”

from : https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=15833&forum=34

add: "compiled by SI"


 2016/5/28 19:33Profile









 Re:

Brothers I say to you gently. You are so enamored with the law and Moses. You are forgetting Jesus and his death the cross. I hear more of the law mentioned in this thread then I hear of Jesus. Your focus is so on Moses. Your focus is so on the law. I fear that you are forgetting the cross of Jesus Christ and his death.

Paul continually reminds us that his message was Christ crucified. Paul reminds us that he passed on as to what he received as of first importance. And that was the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. His message was a cross.

Brothers Paul said may I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ of which the world has been crucified to me and I to the world. You to read some of your posts I fear you are boasting in the law.

Brothers I fear some of are forgetting Jesus and His death on the cross and your desire to exalt the law and Moses.

So sad. If you really believe the law can save you. As for me I will take my stand at the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ.

My thoughts.












 2016/5/28 20:15
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 2556


 Re:

Blaine we must go with the whole councel of scripture ,not a watered down version , as you can see many of the great saints saw and taught this truth of scripture, and many see that truth here on sermon index .

You adding straw to that straw man by saying we are saying we are saved by the law ,no one has said that here ,weasly spurgen ,Whitfield ,Edwards are not saying that either ...

What don't you start a thread about the atonement ,so we can talk about the cross and the life of Christ.
This was a thread about the law ,and let's stick to that topic ,in this thread ,and not derail it with other topics ,as I'm sure you can respect that principle .as you your self are in the habit of reminding others to stick to the topic ...

Please blain don't go all martyer sindrome on us , let's just stick to the topic of thread brother ,it will run its course ,and another topic will come up that we can agree on mostly ,like the cross .......

Blessings to you

 2016/5/28 21:41Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 2556


 Re:


Posts: 33912
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
Various Quotes on the Law Reply To This Post |


Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones: "The trouble with people who are not seeking for a Savior, and for salvation, is that they do not understand the nature of sin. It is the peculiar function of the Law to bring such an understanding to a man’s mind and conscience. That is why great evangelical preachers 300 years ago in the time of the Puritans, and 200 years ago in the time of Whitefield and others, always engaged in what they called a preliminary 'Law work.'”
John Newton (wrote "Amazing Grace"): “Ignorance of the nature and design of the Law is at the bottom of most religious mistakes.”

Charles Spurgeon: “I do not believe that any man can preach the gospel who does not preach the Law.” Then he warns, “Lower the Law and you dim the light by which man perceives his guilt; this is a very serious loss to the sinner rather than a gain; for it lessens the likelihood of his conviction and conversion. I say you have deprived the gospel of its ablest auxiliary [its most powerful weapon] when you have set aside the Law. You have taken away from it the schoolmaster that is to bring men to Christ . . . They will never accept grace till they tremble before a just and holy Law. Therefore the Law serves a most necessary purpose, and it must not be removed from its place.”

Jonathan Edwards: “The only way we can know whether we are sinning is by knowing His Moral Law.”

George Whitefield said to his hearers, “First, then, before you can speak peace to your hearts, you must be made to see, made to feel, made to weep over, made to bewail, your actual transgressions against the Law of God.”

John Wesley: "...it is the ordinary method of the Spirit of God to convict sinners by the Law. It is this which, being set home on the conscience, generally breaketh the rocks in pieces. It is more especially this part of the Word of God which is quick and powerful, full of life and energy and sharper than any two-edged sword."

Martin Luther: "The first duty of the Gospel preacher is to declare God's Law and show the nature of sin."

John Wesley: "It remains only to show...the uses of the Law. And the first use of it, without question, is to convince the world of sin. By this is the sinner discovered to himself. All his fig-leaves are torn away, and he sees that he is 'wretched and poor and miserable, blind and naked.' The Law flashes conviction on every side. He feels himself a mere sinner. He has nothing to pay. His 'mouth is stopped' and he stands 'guilty before God.' To slay the sinner is then the first use of the Law, to destroy the life and strength wherein he trusts and convince him that he is dead while he lives; not only under the sentence of death, but actually dead to God, void of all spiritual life, dead in trespasses and sins."

Charles Spurgeon: "The Law cuts into the core of the evil, it reveals the seat of the malady, and informs us that the leprosy lies deep within."

C. S. Lewis: “When we merely say that we are bad, the ‘wrath’ of God seems a barbarous doctrine; as soon as we perceive our bad-ness, it appears inevitable, a mere corollary from God’s goodness…”

Martin Luther: "...we would not see nor realize it (what a distressing and horrible fall in which we lie), if it were not for the Law, and we would have to remain forever lost, if we were not again helped out of it through Christ. Therefore the Law and the Gospel are given to the end that we may learn to know both how guilty we are and to what we should again return."

J. I. Packer: "Unless we see our shortcomings in the light of the Law and holiness of God, we do not see them as sin at all."

Charles Finney: “Ever more the Law must prepare the way for the Gospel. To overlook this in instructing souls, is almost certain to result in false hope, the introduction of a false standard of Christian experience, and to fill the Church with false converts... time will make this plain.”

John Bunyan: “The man who does not know the nature of the Law, cannot know the nature of sin.”

D. L. Moody: “Ask Paul why [the Law] was given. Here is his answer, ‘That every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God’ (Romans 3:19). The Law stops every man’s mouth. I can always tell a man who is near the kingdom of God; his mouth is stopped. This, then, is why God gives us the Law-to show us ourselves in our true colors.”

A. W. Pink: “Just as the world was not ready for the New Testament before it received the Old, just as the Jews were not prepared for the ministry of Christ until John the Baptist had gone before Him with his claimant call to repentance, so the unsaved are in no condition today for the Gospel till the Law be applied to their hearts, for ‘by the Law is the knowledge of sin.’ It is a waste of time to sow seed on ground which has never been ploughed or spaded! To present the vicarious sacrifice of Christ to those whose dominant passion is to take fill of sin, is to give that which is holy to the dogs.”

Augustine: “The Law is not in fault, but our evil and wicked nature; even as a heap of lime is still and quiet until water be poured thereon, but then it begins to smoke and burn, not from the fault of the water, but from the nature and kind of the lime which will not endure it.”

Matthew Henry: “Herein is the Law of God above all other laws, that it is a spiritual law. Other laws may forbid compassing and imagining, which are treason in the heart, but cannot take cognizance thereof, unless there be some overt act; but the Law of God takes notice of the iniquity regarded in the heart, though it go no further.”

Martin Luther: “Satan, the God of all dissension, stirreth up daily new sects, and last of all, which of all other I should never have foreseen or once suspected, he has raised up a sect as such as teach…that men should not be terrified by the Law, but gently exhorted by the preaching of the grace of Christ.”

John Wesley: “While he cries out, O what love have I to thy Law! all the day long is my study in it. He sees daily, in that divine mirror, more and more of his own sinfulness. He sees more and more clearly, that he is fullness a sinner in all things -- that neither his heart nor his ways are right before God, and that every moment sends him to Christ.
“Therefore I cannot spare the Law one moment, no more than I can spare Christ, seeing I now want it as much to keep me to Christ, as I ever wanted it to bring me to Him. Otherwise this ‘evil heart of unbelief’ would immediately ‘depart from the living God.’ Indeed each is continually sending me to the other--the Law to Christ, and Christ to the Law.”

Martin Luther: In a sermon published way back in 1537, Martin Luther spoke of the Law being used as a schoolmaster the bring sinners to Christ. Listen to his words of warning:

“This now is the Christian teaching and preaching, which God be praised, we know and possess, and it is not necessary at present to develop it further, but only to offer the admonition that it be maintained in Christendom with all diligence. For Satan has attacked it hard and strong from the beginning until the present, and gladly would he completely extinguish it and tread it underfoot.”


_________________
SI Moderator - brother Greg


Copy of gregs thread

 2016/5/28 21:45Profile









 Re:

This thread is all over the place like a dogs breakfast:-)

 2016/5/28 22:03









 Re:

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Paul seems to be saying above that if righteousness (salvation)comes by or through the law then Christ is dead in vain. He again reinforces the point by asking, did you receive the Spirit (salvation) b the works of the law ( hearing it or being convicted by it or trying to abide by it, or failing to abide by it or by any means of it at all) or by the hearing of faith ( hearing about Jesus and what He did and who He is and by what He wants from us)

Can anyone here who is reading or participating on this thread testify that they were saved by the hearing of the law? I personally never knew anything about the Jewish law, moral or otherwise prior to being saved. Was I convicted of sin? Yes, by the Holy Spirit of the living God. When men hear by the Spirit through a saint that Jesus died for them and for their sins, then they are " stabbed in the heart." This stabbing of the heart is a work of the Holy Spirit. This is highlighted famously in Acts 2. Read again and listen carefully to what Peter shares. The gist of what he was saying was that they crucified the Christ whether by ignorance or deliberately, no matter, they crucified the Christ. That truth has been convicting men ever since because when they encounter Jesus and His love for them for dying for them, they are convicted one way or another.

If men, in any shape or fashion, could be convicted and saved by the law then Christ died in vain. Christ and He alone saves by grace through faith and not of the law lest any man should boast. This is the fundamental truth of who we are and the work of Calvary. The centerpiece of salvation is Christ alone and Him crucified. We are convicted by how we sinned against a Holy Gods sacrifice and we will be judged solely on what we did with Calvary. Calvary is a mysterious amalgam of justice and mercy, all the work of salvation is based entirely on the work of Jesus on Calvary. To add a single thing to this equation is to subtract from Calvary..............bro Frank

 2016/5/29 7:35





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