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 Re:

Amen TrueWitness

The issue is, do we really believe that we have been delivered from the power of sin, by the Blood of Christ, and stand on that, refusing to have doubts over our ability to stand against all sin today, not gaining victory over one by one of gradual sanctification.

It is by faith in what Christ gained for us on the Cross and it requires us to do something and that is to have faith in it and refuse the lies of Satan who says that God still has to deal with certain issues.

Wrong! They have all been dealt with. Any remaining sin shows we do not stand in Romans 6 and say we have died to sin.

 2016/5/18 8:01









 Re:

The OP is asking "why do we sin". Why? Then this statement was made:

"Satan projects HIS evil lust on us and entices us to believe it is OUR own evil and strong desire. When we believe the lie, then we take it and it takes us. Thus birthing sin."

Perhaps it was not Tucs intention but it sure sounds like Tuc is saying that we no longer have a "flesh" as reborn saints and that the evil and strong desires are satans evil and strong desires projected onto us.

I don't agree with that not according to my understanding of the bible.

We see in Romans 7 where the Apostle Paul explains that there are two "natures" at work within him and us if we are truly born again.

1) The "nature" of our flesh. This is the natural and instinctive nature inherent in our flesh. It craves and desires evil things, whether or not we have the Holy Spirit. And this is a huge problem if we do not renew our mind on a continual basis. If someone strikes me I indistinctly WANT to strike them back. That evil desire is present in my flesh and an unrenewed mind agrees with the desire and this eventually gives birth to sin. When I am tired and frustrated and someone says something that grates on me, my flesh rises up in response to put them in their place. Just last night this exact thing happened, I responded from my flesh towards my wife and immediately had to repent to her for my words. These were not satans evil desires projected onto me. There was no demon lurking in the bedroom, it was purely and simply me...and I took full responsibility for it and apologized. She forgave me and thus, "when we walk in the Light as He is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin".

2) But I also have the new nature, the nature of the indwelling Christ. The very Holy Spirit is now in me. As I continually live yielded to Him I make the choice to live by faith in allowing Him to respond to all of lives situations rather than going along with the instinctive reactions of my flesh. For me it helps if I describe living by faith as dependency.

Living by faith in Christ to respond/react on a moment by moment basis is called walking in the Spirit. This life is not passive though, I must choose to follow the narrow path of surrender, which is the inner discipline of taking up my cross and mortifying/crucifying my flesh.

This is an inner thing. It is saying "no" to the flesh. It is taking every thought captive and bringing them like a prisoner to the Lord Jesus and allowing Him to shut them away in a prison where they will not be allowed to give birth to sinful actions.

So we see that the inner life is a life of faith - OF COMPLETE DEPENDENCY on Christ. It is just as Paul said, "I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!"

Paul had found the secret of the Christian life...FAITH IN CHRIST. It is not in trying harder to overcome the flesh as so many of you concur. But to say we no longer have a flesh with its evil desires is to not understand the Word of God properly.

 2016/5/18 8:08
makrothumia
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Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 688
Texas

 Re:

TUC,

Please re-read my posts and see if I ever indicated deception is not involved. Of course temptation involves deception, but it is OUR OWN lusts that Satan exploits.

Mak


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Alan and Dina Martin

 2016/5/18 8:14Profile









 Re: Todd

Todd I believe the truth of God's work and our responsibility is best summed up in Philippians 2:13-14 which says,

... So then, my beloved, just as you have obeyed not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure...

Jesus did tell us in John 15:5 that apart from Me you can do nothing. But then in Philippians 4:13 Paul says I can do all things through Him who strengthens me.

My understanding is that it is God who is working in us and then through Him we are working out His salvation. Rather perhaps I should say we are walking out His salvation by faith.

As usual my thoughts.

 2016/5/18 8:47
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

RE: ///but it is OUR OWN lusts that Satan exploits.///

Did Jesus have His own Lusts by which He was tempted ?

edit add : "The James verse does not so much tell us how temptation is born, but how it obtains its purpose (sin),.."

 2016/5/18 9:12Profile









 Re: Alan

Desires have no will of their own. They are built into all men in greater or lesser degree. DESIRES are NEVER wrong IN THEMSELVES. They are neither IMMORAL (bad, wrong) or MORAL (good, right) but AMORAL (having no morality or deliberate rule of right and wrong in themselves). Desires are God-given; used rightly, to ENJOY life; used wrongly, to DESTROY ourselves. The tug of desire is not sin in itself; but a natural feeling produced by stimulation and without direct control by the person.

Question: Can a desire ever produce good or righteousness?

 2016/5/18 9:13
havok20x
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Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 798


 Re:

We have a fantastic opportunity here to dig into the Scripture and see what it says.

2 Corinthians 5:12-21

12 For we do not commend ourselves again to you, but give you opportunity to boast on our behalf, that you may have an answer for those who boast in appearance and not in heart. 13 For if we are beside ourselves, it is for God; or if we are of sound mind, it is for you. 14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; 15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.

16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. 21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.


What is great is that I am righteous. I am righteous because of what Jesus has done for me.

Look at Titus 3

Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work, 2 to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men. 3 For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men.



I understand what TUC is saying. I have had the opportunity to discuss this with him. Here is saying nothing short of what we find in John 15

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;[a] and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will[b] ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.


Apart from Jesus Christ, we can do nothing. All our fruit is a result of being rooted in the vine.

Look at this promise regarding temptation:

13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.

God has promised a way of escape from EVERY temptation.

If we trust Him and follow after Him (walking in the Spirit), then we aren't going to sin. When we do sin, it is ALWAYS because we are not trusting for God to fulfill THIS promise and numerous others.

 2016/5/18 9:41Profile
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1758


 Re:

Quote:

Bear I agree with you. What I disagree with is the idea that we are powerless to avoid sinning. I see two sources of power to live a holy life- primarily the power of the HS in us, and MY power to choose to obey or quench the Holy Spirit.



I agree completely with you. Lets keep Christianity practical. This is exactly my experience as well. We still have our own will we cannot deny it at all.

As a person who has received the baptism of Holy Spirit, I can testify that we receive power to obey Holy Spirit as well. Still it is possible to sin.


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Sreeram

 2016/5/18 9:42Profile
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1758


 Re:

Quote:

RE: ///but it is OUR OWN lusts that Satan exploits.///

Did Jesus have His own Lusts by which He was tempted ?

edit add : "The James verse does not so much tell us how temptation is born, but how it obtains its purpose (sin),.."



Bible only says that in Hebrews 4:15:-
For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.


I just noticed that the phrase 'As WE Are' is not originally in the Bible. May be someone who has researched this in original script can shed light on it.

The scripture says Jesus was tempted as us, not that we are tempted like Jesus. Jesus came to earth in the likeness of our flesh(not in exact flesh like us). To understand whether Jesus had a flesh like us or not, we do not have enough evidence. When the scripture is silent, it means we need to believe in faith.

I believe that when the scripture says I have a sinful flesh in me that tempts me, James 1 and Romans 7 and Galatians 5. I also experience this flesh working in me always setting its desires against the Will of God, his Holy Spirit.

I believe that JEsus was sinless and prefect sacrifice.

I also believe that Jesus came in the likeness of me.

I also believe that Jesus was tempted like me in all things, else he cannot sympathize with me.

All these things are sound scripture. We do not need to look too deep into the flesh of Jesus to have faith in all these. Faith is to believe even without seeing.

I have tried it in the past to understand the Flesh of Jesus but it was not fruitful. I finally conquered to what the scripture says. We will get all the light we need on how Jesus's flesh was when we see him face to face, if we remain faithful till the end. Till then it is not at all wise to discuss on the unknown details.

No matter what answer I give you will not be convinced.

Learn to just accept and believe scripture. When it says each one is tempted by his own lusts, then it means we have lust.


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Sreeram

 2016/5/18 10:13Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

RE: ///Learn to just accept and believe scripture. When it says each one is tempted by his own lusts, then it means we have lust. ///

If the Lord gives you a burden to do something (His desire) It would not be a contridiction to say that you have a desire or a burden to do that something.
Yes in one since it can be said to be your own desire but that is not to say that the desire originated from yourself.

add: Likewise to say that we have Lust does not negate that those Lust originated from the enemy, they become ours when we have excepted them as ours

Do you see how, the James verse does not negate Tucs logic ? Lets becareful with proof text

edit: clarity

 2016/5/18 10:53Profile





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