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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Who is Mystery Babylon?

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 Re:

2 Corinthians 13:1
Deuteronomy 19:15
Matthew 18:16

Marc mc

 2016/4/11 20:48
RogerB
Member



Joined: 2007/4/5
Posts: 245
Bruceton TN

 Re: Mystery Babylon

Lots of things going on behind the scene. US news has no news for you.

https://www.facebook.com/ and search for israeli-news-live

or here:

http://israelinewslive.org


_________________
James R Barnes

 2016/4/11 20:53Profile









 Re:

FYI, "the mother of all" in the original language reads like "the mother of all earthquakes", as in scales of magnitude, not as in a "mom" giving birth - FYI.

 2016/4/11 20:57









 Re:

"Throughout the scriptures, repeatedly & abundantly, whenever specific nations are named & highlighted for the judgement of God at the Day of the Lord, apart from the Lords chastisement against His own people Israel, it's always pointing us to regions or nations that today are vastly dominated by Islam (Isaiah 25, Isaiah 34, Isaiah 63, Joel 3, Exekiel 25, Ezekiel 30, Obadiah, Zephaniah 2, Numbers 24, etc.).

Most prophecy teachers today claim that the religion of the Antichrist will be humanism or some form of all-inclusive religious pluralism. If this is the case, then one must also believe that the overwhelming majority of middle eastern nations today will convert from Islam to a belief system common in the West, but embraced by very few in the Middle East. Yet, not once in the entire Bible
Is an exclusively European nation actually named in the context of the Day of the Lord. The Bible certainly references European nations, but never in the context of His judgement. Yet this is where the majority of prophecy teachers have told us the Antichrist & his empire will emerge.

What shall we conclude from this? How do we responsibly interpret these many passages? Shall we simply ignore these references? Or should we claim that they are all to be taken allegorically, assuming that names such as Edom, Moab, Cush, Arabia, Assyria, Libya, Lidya, or Persia are meant to imply any or every nation in the world as the vague or general enemies of God & His people? This hyper-allegorical approach is actually very common when approaching these passages. As I have already stated, I find it irresponsible and not in keeping with a conservative & literal hermeneutic. Will God exclusively judge Muslim nations and bless all Western Non-Muslim nations? How do these nations relate to the coming empire of the coming anticheist? The answer to these questions are essential if we are to grasp the message of the prophets. The implications and ramifications for evangelism & missions as well as the prayer focus of the church are immense. In the next two chapters we will attempt to answer these questions & develop a solid method of interpretation to understand these passages."

Short Excerpt from "Mideast Beast", by Joel Richardson

 2016/4/11 22:43
onemite
Member



Joined: 2011/9/19
Posts: 168


 Re: Who is Mystery Babylon?

I remember when this was a featured sermon here on sermonindex. It helped me a lot.
It's a sermon by Zac Poonen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCGTkoYeIwE

 2016/4/11 23:16Profile









 Re:

And check this out on YouTube:

"Joel Richardson, Mideast Beast explained"

Check out this video on YouTube:

http://youtu.be/3CpyJ3-3mBU

In this short set of video explanations, he gives a brief explanation how early church leaders like "Hippolytus of Rome" & others believed this (that Gog of Magog was from the land of ancient Assyria in Asia Minor - ie modern day Turkey, also to "true north" of Israel) how AW Pink believed this, how Clarence Larkin believed this, etc. He also explains & shows how the errant thinking of our day concerning Gog of Magog being Russian got started up by Charles Scoffield's Bible notes & perpetuated. But then shows how historical prophecy maps show that, but all major modern Bible Atlases composed by modern conservative scholars show it to be where it really was, in Asia Minor in the area of modern day Turkey (& the western edge of ancient Assyria). I have found that He is very thorough. This is some of the material he goes through very methodically in his book, "Mideast Beast, The Scriptural Case for an Islamic Antichrist". I have just personally found that what he teaches clears up so many things & connects so many dots. And without totally explaining everything away or allegorizing everything into total oblivion where nothing can really be proven whatsoever. And this is a guy with a heart & ministry focus on the persecuted church, evangelism, missions, etc. not just a "prophecy club" ministry.
Anyways,
God Bless,
Jeff

 2016/4/12 1:29
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

Shinar is, of course, the mystical city Babylon of Rev xviii, "that great city", in which the ultimate development of Commercialism is seen and which is to be so terribly overthrown. There is where the ephah is enshrined, so to speak; that is to say, where the temple of Mammon is built by its devotees....p219

"bread by weight"
To eat "bread by weight" and to drink water by measure" (Ezek.4:16) is to be in an evil state. It means a social condition where in everthing that enters into the life of human beings, down to the very prime necessities of every individual man, woman and child, has been completely commercialized. the words that characterize the mission of the black horse and rider mention specifically the bread of the rich, "wheat", and the bread of the poor, "barley" ; thus declaring in figurative language that the very bread of life of every individual was to be under the control of this system, which has come to pass most literally, in that the prices of wheat and other grain are fixed from day to day, according to market "quotations", which are precise to a fraction of a cent, those prices being settled in secret by potentates who never appear in the public eye ,but who decrees are more absolute than those of Ceasar of old.
It is clear enough to anyone who puts his mind to it that an invisible autocracy, which is able thus to place an inflexible price upon the food of men, is really the master of their lives, or "souls". Hence we can clearly see, in the light of the foregoing facts, that the system described in ch xviii, under the symbol of the black horse and rider, has attained to full development in our day...... p.221

This complete domination of the necessities of life of human existence by an invisible system of finance has come so quietly, and so gradually, that only a few wide-awake ones have reliezed what is going on: and their voices, when they have sought to cry an alarm, were easily stifled, or drowned out......p.223
-Philip Mauro "Things which must soon come to pass"

 2016/4/12 10:03Profile









 Re:


2 Pet 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words MAKE MERCHANDISE OF YOU: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

I can't help but think of how religious organizations "compete" for souls (more tithers needed) when I read this verse. Religious organizations can be across the street from each other yet many have no fellowship between themselves.

The Pharisees were threatened by Jesus and they were afraid of losing the "souls" that were following them. They said that "everyone is going after Him", and they were fearful of losing their "place". It is all a big power struggle over the control of men's souls (life).

The merchandising of souls is big business in the religious world as well as the political and financial worlds. Without souls, they have no power, no influence.

2 Pet 2:2 And many shall follow their PERNICIOUS ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

The truth is evil spoken of by these religious frauds and PERNICIOUS is a great word for them.

adj. Tending to cause death or serious injury; deadly: a pernicious virus.
adj. Causing great harm; destructive: pernicious rumors.
adj. Archaic Evil; wicked.

Because they actually do cause death (spiritual death). Working backwards from 2 Pet 2:3, now.

2 Pet 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

"Even denying the Lord that bought them"

You have the religious system merchandising the souls of men and the other parts of Satan's world system (political/financial) controlling men as ProudPapa, stated. There is your unholy tripartite relationship. Religious, Financial, Political all for the souls of men.

Quote:
It is clear enough to anyone who puts his mind to it that an invisible autocracy, which is able thus to place an inflexible price upon the food of men, is really the master of their lives, or "souls". Hence we can clearly see, in the light of the foregoing facts, that the system described in ch xviii, under the symbol of the black horse and rider, has attained to full development in our day...... p.221

This complete domination of the necessities of life of human existence by an invisible system of finance has come so quietly, and so gradually, that only a few wide-awake ones have reliezed what is going on: and their voices, when they have sought to cry an alarm, were easily stifled, or drowned out......p.223

-Philip Mauro "Things which must soon come to pass"

 2016/4/12 10:25









 Re:

POST EDITED TO ADD CONTENT:
Concerning the Phillip Mauro commentaries:

Wow. That is totally allegorizing everything. Not that those things aren't types, pictures & accuracies, but his whole point (agenda) is getting everything back around to prove a Historicist view.

But what does he do with all of the prophetic scriptures whose clear wider context is "The Day of the Lord", "The Day of the Lord's Vengeance..", etc. explain that away allegorically too? As if it already happened somehow?

"Only a few wide awake ones", eh? The enlightened ones? Who have read Mauros commentaries & eschatology? Not trying to be contentious here brethren, but is his view (as I recently have heard such Historicist hyper-allegorizatuon termed) "borderline gnostic" (gnosis Greek for "to know" as in this "secret knowledge" that isn't necessarily available to all believers with the scriptures, but only the "enlightened ones" who follow down the rabbit hole?

When I began looking at all the views side by side in earnest desire (with much prayed) to want to know "Lord, what is the truth?" The thing I can't get away from is that I had done some of these same possible "allegorizings" in my mind before too (could this mean XYZ?). But as I went back and looked at these passages more in depth in their full context, I have and still am realizing that they are inconsistent. And why would God make such "hyper-allegorizatikns" of the scriptures only available to "the scribes" & yet, most of the prophets (those gifted in that way - the true ones, not the fakers so save that speech please) don't? Why would God hide the prophetic prophecies from the prophets themselves? That makes no sense?

And only reveal it to the "special scribes" who have the "secret knowledge"? I'm not trying to sensationalize it, but the more I read of these guys, the more I see it. There's a hidden hook/bait, I believe, in the pride of men's hearts to "be the special ones" to interpret the scriptures. Not BY THE SCRIPTURES, but those "in the know" (who have no prophetic Ilk to see that I can tell)? That doesn't make sense to me. Not trying to be arrogant, proud, harsh, or contentious. God knows my heart & I am not. But I am just being honest.

God Bless,
Jeff

 2016/4/12 12:56









 Re: Jeff

Most conservative commentators hold that the Book of Revelation was written around 90 or 95 A.D. But there are those such as Hank Hanegraaff who hold that the Book of Revelation was written before 70 A D. If so then the Apocalypse of John has already taken place.

But then seems like we're living in one messed-up Millennium if that is the situation. :-)

 2016/4/12 13:07





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