SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Looking for free sermon messages?
Sermon Podcast | Audio | Video

Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : What is spiritual, what is natural and what is literal?

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Re:

I agree with "most" of what you said, but your using Paul, Peter as "being grafted back in" I don't think is contextually accurate to what it's talking about. If it's an eternal spiritual kingdom that started at Calvary, Peter & Paul weren't re-grafted in after Gentile's (like Romans 11 speaks of futuristic ally), because those were the first grafted in at all post resurrection.

Anyways, I'm not saying we can't fellowship. Never have. I'm saying people of your view KEEP BRINGING THIS AROUND & then get bent & refuse to answer questions when someone finally takes the substantial time to discuss it line by line in a loving, kind, non-attacking manner (not saying everyone has done this, but I have certainly been aware of this & tried to. When it has been super contentious & hateful, ugly comments are getting thrown around, I have tried to stay TOTALLY out of it as much as possible - I hope that's been noticed?).

I would again really appreciate your thoughts after having read the book I recommended. Even if it doesn't change your eschatological timeline, it will give you food for thought I'LL PRETTY MUCH GUARANTEE you weren't aware of (I sure wasn't).

I have a job, it's my wife's birthday, I have work to do, & my wife needs to go to the OB-GYN & may be having our 7th baby here soon. I can't spend any more time on this right now everyone. I'm sorry. I am not ashamed/scared to promote Joel's book, "When a Jew Rules the World" though because I believe it has beneficial historical information regardless of your end times eschatological framework/belief.
May God Bless you all!
Jeff

 2016/4/4 13:34









 Re:

Paul preached many things and another thing he preached was that being a JEW in the flesh does not give you standing and righteousness in the kingdom of God. That they must embrace the New Covenant and the "Better Country" which is above and that earthly countries do not matter any more.

Heb 11:16 But now they desire a BETTER COUNTRY, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

They did not like that. They wanted to hold onto this notion of a physical kingdom on earth and persecuted Paul because he preached about a spiritual kingdom and that a physical kingdom no longer had any relevance.

Heb 11:14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

The people that died in faith in the OT saw the spiritual promises that you say are physical. Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Zechariah, all saw a spiritual kingdom and realized they were "strangers and pilgrims on earth."

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Now read the rest:

Heb 11:14 "For they that say such things declare plainly that THEY SEEK A COUNTRY" - What country?

Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. (in other words, there is no opportunity)

Heb 11:16 But now THEY DESIRE A BETTER COUNTRY, that is, an HEAVENLY: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city. (Jerusalem above).

They saw afar off a heavenly city...the spiritual kingdom of God. God gave them revelation of many things. Isaiah saw a spiritual redeemer coming to save their people from their sins not their physical enemies. Ezekiel-new heart and new spirit. Micah, Jeremiah, Zechariah were all given revelation of the spiritual kingdom not a natural kingdom.

We have no "city" on earth -

Heb 13:13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.
Heb 13:14 FOR HERE (on earth) HAVE WE NO CONTINUIING CITY, but we seek one to come.



 2016/4/4 13:53









 Re:

Quote:
by Jeff
I have a job, it's my wife's birthday, I have work to do, & my wife needs to go to the OB-GYN & may be having our 7th baby here soon. I can't spend any more time on this right now everyone. I'm sorry. I am not ashamed/scared to promote Joel's book, "When a Jew Rules the World" though because I believe it has beneficial historical information regardless of your end times eschatological framework/belief.
May God Bless you all!
Jeff



Go, go, what are you doing here? ;-)

I will buy and read that book. I promise.

God bless and happy birthday to your wife.

 2016/4/4 13:55









 Re:

I don't disagree with your post Julius (at least the first part mostly), but now Gentile's don't like the fact that God is going to restore them by SAVING THEM ALL BY HIS RIGHTEOUS RIGHT HAND, & giving them a place among the nations as Christ rules & reins from Jerusalem (still to come). Orthodox Jews are lost Jews. We don't disagree on that. BUT GOD, is going to save them in a way that astounds the whole earth when they are trusting in their security, surrounded on every side, humbled & desecrated in something more widespread & massive than the holocaust (they don't like that hearing that either, so know I'm not cowering to orthodox Jewish opinion of the Gospel), but that ultimately when it is HOPELESS for them, their Messiah (who was all along there but they were hardened for the most part, as far as their numbers, against Him), they will look on Him whom they pierced & be saved, when the fullness of the Gentile's has come in!

I am not exalting lost Jews who reject God. I am exalting God's Soveriegn election & praying & watching for the day these things happens and HE HIMSLEF comes & destroys Israel's enemies, saves ALL ISREAL, & I can rejoice with them & see my King who died to save me!

 2016/4/4 15:02
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5292
NC, USA

 Re:

Jeff-

Jesus intentionally kept his disciples in the dark on some things, as here:

Luke 9:44-45 “Let these words sink into your ears: The Son of Man is about to be delivered into the hands of men.” But they did not understand this saying, and it was concealed from them, so that they might not perceive it. And they were afraid to ask him about this saying."

Based on your last post, you seem to be saying that Jews will be saved when Jesus returns. I asked Rev this and will also ask you (don't think he answered): what if a person is only 5% Jewish; what about 40%? What is the cutoff %? Not trying to be irreverent- it's a legitimate question.

Also you seem to be saying that a special way of being saved is reserved for just the Jewish people- namely that when Jesus returns and reveals himself to them in person THEN they will believe. If true, does that apply to Gentiles as well? And if true, how is that fair to the millions currently in torment because they did not have such an opportunity, namely seeing Jesus return in all his glory?


_________________
Todd

 2016/4/4 15:20Profile









 Re:

Quote:
by jeffmar1130 on 2016/4/4 15:02:22

I don't disagree with your post Julius (at least the first part mostly), but now Gentile's don't like the fact that God is going to restore them by SAVING THEM ALL BY HIS RIGHTEOUS RIGHT HAND, & giving them a place among the nations as Christ rules & reins from Jerusalem (still to come).



I don't know what "Gentiles don't like it", but God was and is always about restoring men to Himself not a piece of dirt on earth. And He is ruling and reigning as He sits at the right hand of God, even now. He is ruling and reigning in His Church.

Quote:
Orthodox Jews are lost Jews. We don't disagree on that. BUT GOD, is going to save them in a way that astounds the whole earth when they are trusting in their security, surrounded on every side, humbled & desecrated in something more widespread & massive than the holocaust (they don't like that hearing that either, so know I'm not cowering to orthodox Jewish opinion of the Gospel), but that ultimately when it is HOPELESS for them, their Messiah (who was all along there but they were hardened for the most part, as far as their numbers, against Him), they will look on Him whom they pierced & be saved, when the fullness of the Gentile's has come in!



I think Jesus did save them in an astounding and totally unexpected way, already. People look upon him with spiritual eyes like you and I did. How will He provide salvation again? It is and always will be by faith in the shed blood of Christ. The work and the word of the Cross.

Eph_1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened..."

Jesus is talking about spiritual eyes, understanding here.

Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
Rom 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
Rom 11:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.


Jesus is now done with His program of salvation.

Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered ONE SACRIFICE FOR SINS FOR EVER, sat down on the right hand of God;

Christ came to restore them to Himself and the Father not to earthly dirt. He will restore them to a "Better Country", an heavenly one", not an earthly one.

Great talking with you.

Good questions, TMK.

 2016/4/4 15:35









 Re:

As far as "is that fair?" Have you not read Romans 7 concerning election?

As far as %, I'm not pretending to have all the answers, but I would assume anyone from Israel lineage would be included? I don't have all the answers.

Again, where He kept them in the dark for a season, just like the passage you mention now, the context IS CLEAR that He was doing JUST THAT (& it says it), but in Acts 1, it says/shows no such thing, & in fact Jesus says something after that would solidify their ignorance all the more? Wouldn't that be Christ being deceptive if that were true?

 2016/4/4 16:01









 Re:

You said "Jews don't/didn't like it" when Paul told them they were lost without Christ. I agree. And many "Gentiles" now in the flesh don't like it when you share Romans 11 & that Christ is going to Soveriegnty save Israel again at the end of the age by Soveriegn election. Luther didn't like it. Calvin didn't like it. Augustin didn't like it. Hitler didn't like it. Mohammed didn't like it. Phillip Mauro didn't like it. Etc., etc.

The only important thing about "the dirt" there is if Jesus really is returning with His feet on the mount of olives & ruling & reining from that "dirt". That makes not the "dirt" important (like some weird RCC sacred dirt weirdness), but the place where Christ is going to return & rule & rein from special. Wherever Christ is & whatever is in his plan, is special.

But that's fine, explain away plain texts of scripture in Romans 11 & elsewhere to accommodate your doctrines. I'm not mad at you. But just let me know what you think of the book we talked about. God Bless!

 2016/4/4 16:07
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5292
NC, USA

 Re:

Quote:
As far as "is that fair?" Have you not read Romans 7 concerning election?

But there is also scripture that says He does not show favoritism. If your scenario is correct he is most certainly showing favoritism.


_________________
Todd

 2016/4/4 17:09Profile









 Re:

Then is election "favoritism"?

 2016/4/4 17:28





©2002-2019 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy