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docs
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 Re: Yep proudpapa (edited))

I guess I likely had in mind 1927 in mind for some reason. Was "The Gospel of the Kingdom" published then? Thanks for the uh...adjustment. I'm human. Let me check a bit on some info. Be right back.

Yes he did pass when you say. I had 2 bits of info in my mind and mixed the two. Yet no matter when he died literal concrete time and spave events proved him wrong at a very foundational level in what he esposed as a permamant dissolving of Isarel in 70 AD. Respectuflly to him, Too bad he ist around us any longer to give his take now on present circumstances and what he wrote then.


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David Winter

 2016/4/4 13:03Profile









 Re:

Julius, I agree with your first paragraph 100%.

Again, I don't disagree with much of what you're saying, but there is a specific, prophetic, elective in gathering of natural Israel in the end by God's Soveriegnty which it adds "the gifts & callings of God are irrevocable."

And you still can't get the plain meaning of the texts concerning natural Isreal & "boast against" the natural branches (some translations say "do not be arrogant towards"...). Why the warning there from Paul in your paradigm/lens? Fact is, supercessationists have eventually let to "boasting against", "being arrogant towards.." And ultimately approving, inciting, or even participating in (while constructing doctrines of demons theology to "support it) the murder of, annihilation/genocide of, driving out from their lands/home/property, etc. TOTALLY UNCHRISTIAN behaviors that were the fruit of these teachers lives, ministry, & teachings (by their fruit you I'll know them). Not saying you have this heart!! Totally not saying not implying that. Honestly. Just saying if that's been the wholesale fruit of 1800+ years of Supercessionism Theology, is that maybe an indicator to the church of something about the whole framework (Remember, Jesus even said about false teachers, "you will know them by their fruit", not even, though this matters, "you will know them by their framing of scriptures").

Again, I'm open to the long list of Premillinael teachers (I have named many who are WELL respected across all spectrums/denominations concerning faithfulness to the Gospel, doctrine, their ministries & the fruit they bore) who were murderous, treacherous, genocidal, etc. But no such list exists. Only among Supercessionists does it exist. Not saying that's the one and only litmus test and dictates all things, but if the filter can't tell the difference between "kill these useless rat Jews" and "love your enemy", why would I not put their doctrines under closer scrutinization/question? Discerning good and evil spirits? Murder, and in the name of Christ, is the most evil of spirits (of the sons of thunder, Jesus said, "you know not what spirit you are of"), so that already has my discernment antennae on high position. But Romans 11 & Acts 1 are major issues as well (not even getting into the OT prophets cause they get explained away, but just looking at these two NT passages).

 2016/4/4 13:03
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
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 Re:

And to this time, the Jewish establishement has not "as a whole had changed their characteristic attitude towards Christ and His gospel,"

 2016/4/4 13:05Profile









 Re:

Good point Doc. This guy Mauro, "THE MODERN GO TO GUY" concerning Supercessionism: his entire paradigm of how he interprets all those scriptures led him to make statements and it turns out they were TOTALLY WRONG after Israel's re establishment. So, his whole method of getting to that paradigm by interpreting everything through that lens falls apart (or at the very least has holes like the Titanic after hitting Iceberg!). That's why modern Supercessetionism teachers have had to reinterpret even more, go back on original thought/statements, or just totally avoid that inconvenient truth altogether & "stay the course" (like Julius is apparently perfectly comfortable doing).

 2016/4/4 13:07









 Re:

It's not the end yet PP. we are getting closer (& seeing the initial seeds of this I believe), but it's not fully done yet. It's coming...it's coming....and Christ is also coming on the clouds!!!! That's not in 70 AD, but on that great & terrible Day of the Lord yet to come. Maranatha, Come Lord Jesus!

 2016/4/4 13:09









 Re:

Good point, PP. I read over that too fast.

 2016/4/4 13:17
docs
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Joined: 2006/9/16
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 Re: proudpapa

/And to this time, the Jewish establishement has not "as a whole had changed their characteristic attitude towards Christ and His gospel,"

But Jerusalem came again into Jewish hands before the times of the Gentiles is to end. Mr Mauro wrote that if that happened the entire New Testament would be discredited.

Personally, and I'm assuming a whole lot of other believers also, still believe in the absolute crebibility of the New Testament.


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David Winter

 2016/4/4 13:17Profile
proudpapa
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 Re:

RE: ///And you still can't get the plain meaning of the texts concerning natural Isreal & "boast against" the natural branches (some translations say "do not be arrogant towards"...). Why the warning there from Paul in your paradigm/lens?///

If boasting against the natural branches means that we are to support the Jewish establishement,

Why did Jesus, Stephen, Paul etc. speak so strongly against the Jewish establishement.


 2016/4/4 13:19Profile
docs
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 Re: jeffmar

/"his entire paradigm of how he interprets all those scriptures led him to make statements and it turns out they were TOTALLY WRONG after Israel's re establishment. So, his whole method of getting to that paradigm by interpreting everything through that lens falls apart (or at the very least has holes like the Titanic after hitting Iceberg!)."

That's the obvious point and it comes from his own writings. His views were based on his belief that God has irrevocably dissolved the Jewish nation in 70 AD and it would therefore never again becomea nation again and regain possession of the land and Jerusalem. So huis whoole method of coming to these views was WRONG.


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David Winter

 2016/4/4 13:21Profile
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 Re: julius

I'm not necessarily speaking of all the other truths he espoused. I'm speaking of his views that he advocated regarding Isarel suppposedly being ireevocably dissolved in 70 AD so as to never become a nation again or come again into the land and regain possession of Jerusalem etc. Obviously he was monumentally wrong so it seems safe to assume that whatever view or method he used to come to his conclusions was wrong. It doesn't matter which year he passed in. His methods and views and the way he arrived at them were shown by actual literal events to be WRONG.


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David Winter

 2016/4/4 13:27Profile





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