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 Re:

Then do tell how you reconcile that with Paul's words & the examples IN Scripture I shared? Jesus said, "unless you HATE your father & mother,....you cannot be my disciple..." So do you HATE your parents? Hate your wife? If not, are you just readily dismissing the saviors words? Of course not. That's why the FULL COUNSEL of scripture is needed to "rightly divide the Word of truth." So that your not a workman who needeth to be ashamed on that day.

Was Paul "nit-picking"? With Peter? Or with the Corinthians? Of course not. Context context context. No one still answers these other scriptural examples in light of the broad brush being applied with Jesus' passage on not judging "BY MERE APPEARANCES". I'm not judging by mere appearances. "After I go drink ALOT of Budweiser, I'm going to go say a little prayer to 'The big man upstairs' " is not God honoring testimony. It just isn't. If someone can't "judge" that plainly, is be surprised if they could judge anything rightly (discernment) at all. Just being honest. Maybe he is a believer? I don't know (God knows), but I know his statement was not God honoring. And it wasn't "a mistake". He said it verbatim 2x. "The big man upstairs" is an affront to the holiness of God. And drinking ALOT of Budweiser is promoting drunkeness. Plain & simple.

 2016/2/15 16:49
Oracio
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Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2093
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Amen jeffmar1130. The twisting of that "Judge not" verse is so prevalent these in days in the emergent, apostate church culture. They cannot endure the calling of a spade a spade or any kind of distinguishing between true and false conversion or true and false doctrine. Yet God's Word is crystal clear that there are true and false Christians and that we must be careful not to knowingly fellowship with false professing Christians as you pointed out from 1 Cor. 5 and other scriptures.

The emergent, apostate church culture says in essence, "holiness does not really matter when it comes to salvation. You can be saved and indulge in sin because after all, no one is perfect but God. So don't be too hard on yourself or judge yourself or others, relax. We are all children of God in the end regardless of our behavior or beliefs."

Isn't that just like the enemy? As soon as the standard of the Word of God is lifted up they pull the legalism card on you. Jesus said that the world hated him because He testified of it that its deeds are evil (John 7:7). Like Leonard Ravenhill once said, “If Jesus had preached the same message that ministers preach today, He would never have been crucified.” Jesus preached against sin and called people to repent and that’s why they ended up crucifying him. He said that a servant is not greater than his Master and that if they hated Him they would hate us too if we follow in His footsteps. It’s part of the package deal for those that desire to truly follow Christ.


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Oracio

 2016/2/15 17:17Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2093
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Forgot to mention that the attitude of, "Only God can judge me" is more in keeping with the late gangster rapper Tupac Shakur than with the Word of God.


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Oracio

 2016/2/15 17:28Profile
JFW
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Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1386
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:

Question;
What are your thoughts/insights/interpretations on the following exhortation by Paul to Timothy in 1 Timothy 5:
"22 Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men's sins: keep thyself pure.
23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities."

While I'm not drawing a comparable situation with PM's comment, I would like to hear from those who are posting in this thread on both sides- thanks in advance:)


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Fletcher

 2016/2/15 17:32Profile









 Re:

Again, I think it meant exactly what it said. I AM NOT a "Teatotolar". Wine was most likely, many scholars say, MUCH weaker than today's, & the process of wine making was also one way of ensuring the cleanliness of the water. I don't personally have a problem with a believer having a glass of wine or a beer if they in good conscience can in faith & aren't doing it in a way that it's a stumbling block to others. But drunkeness is a WHOLE OTHEE ISSUE. If one is going to "DRINK ALOT OF (5.5% alcohol) BUDWEISER" & announce it to the world proudly 2x, & follow that declaration with, "pray a little prayer to the big man upstairs" (that's dishonor one to the Glory & name of God's holiness), now that's a whole other issue. When 1 Corunthians aye don't fellowship with people who claim to be believers but are drunkards, & Revelations lists drunkards among those who are eternally cast away, & scripture says, "do not be drunk on wine, but rather be full of the Holy Ghost", you have to take it all in proper context. Extremes on either side cannot be Biblically supported.

The scriptures are ALL true, not just the ones we prefer to pick out to defend a stance.

 2016/2/15 17:51
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5476
NC, USA

 Re:

What good does it do to criticize Peyton Manning in this forum? Do you really think he will read this forum? (For all that it good and true in the world I hope not). No one here is holding him up as the greatest Christian who ever lived. It certainly isn't helping me. As Awakened (mark) said(paraphrasing), all it does is make us look like a bunch of sanctimonious jerks.

I think for the most part Chamber's point about criticism is being missed. His point is that criticism only serves to harm the spirit of the person doing the criticizing, and does nothing whatsoever to help or even hurt the person being criticized. How is criticizing Manning here for what he said post Super Bowl helping him, or us? And if we are brave enough to criticize someone in person (which is really the only scriptural way) instead of behind their back, the chances of us doing it in a Godly way full of the HS is exceedingly slim. How about we pray that the HS will do the convicting and criticizing instead? For that matter, how do we know that the HS has not already convicted him about what he said?

Jesus said "judge not" because He knew that judging and criticizing damages your own spirit. And that far outweighs any potential good we might imagine our judging will do. The far greater probability is that the judging will do great harm because we are sinful men.


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Todd

 2016/2/15 19:08Profile









 Re:

Todd

Do you realize that you are judging the comments that you disagree with?
And yes I am judging your judgement regarding the judgements you just made,

 2016/2/15 19:31
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2093
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

T-

I have heard of many testimonies of people being awakened and soundly converted through some of Paul Washers messages in which he plainly calls out specific sins and warns professing Christians to examine themselves to see if they are truly in the faith.

It is the preaching of true repentance and genuine faith in Christ that God uses to awaken and save sinners.

So if Peyton Manning were to ever read this thread, my hope and prayer is that he would be thus awakened and soundly saved through the conviction of the Holy Spirit regarding his false profession of faith. Jesus said that by their fruit you will know them. I know that I am not eloquent and that my speech is not flowery, but I am convinced that the Holy Spirit does not need eloquence or flowery speech but rather simple and plain speech in order to convict of sin, righteousness and judgment.


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Oracio

 2016/2/15 23:04Profile









 Re:

I don't mean this sarcastically, but Apparently something Oswald Chambers wrote can be applied to whatever we want it to & more important than scripture quotes of the apostle Paul in the epistles (God's inspired letters of doctrine, instruction & practice for the church)? I'm not talking about being "critical". I'm simply stating the facts about what the guy said on national TV. That's not "not-picking". It would be more like "undiscerningly sticking your head in the sand, sticking your fingers in your ears & saying 'I can't hear you! I can't hear you'" not to honestly look at what he said & the BIBLICAL implications of this. Critical Would be, "I don't think he talks enough about Christ publicly to be a real Christian". But discernment is just taking what the guy said & being honest with an open Bible. Not to do so would be the mistake the Corinthians did in ignoring sin in their midst, "& being proud of it" as if it were a good thing. Paul says their boasting was not good & they should have judged the matter! Why can no one see what is plainly in the text? And again, was Paul "just being critical" of Peter? Didn't the apostle Paul know how people would later apply things Oswald Chambers said to the situation & call Paul critical & childish & a Pharisee?

 2016/2/16 0:04
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3407
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re:


Judging is like unforgiveness, you keep wasting all your energy proving you have a right to judge, while the person you won't forgive or ARE JUDGING keeps right living NOT wasting one bit of energy worrying about your judging (or unforgiveness)!!!


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Lisa

 2016/2/16 6:11Profile





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