| Re: |
Scripture can't be read to demand teetotalism. Wine drinking was a way of life.
The wine at Cana was intoxicating. It states specifically that hosts let their guests drink the good stuff first until they get tipsy (implied) then bring out the cheap stuff. But the host marveled because they saved the best wine (that Jesus made) until last. Jesus didn't make grape juice and there is no indication it was anything other than wine.
I am not sure where we get the idea that it's ok for a Christian to drink beer in Europe and not the US. Beer has been here since the pilgrims, as Solomon noted.
Why in the world having a beer would be considered idolatry, I have no idea.
| 2016/2/11 18:45||Profile|
| Re: |
I did some googling on Peyton Manning. I do not know if he is born again. But the consensus of the sites I looked at seem to indicate that he is not a Mormon. But a Protestant Christian.... whatever that is :-). He does play with Mormon teammates though. But it appears he is not a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day saints.
Regarding the discussion on wine and beer I will...uh hmm...abstain.:-) :-) :-)
My two cents worth.
| 2016/2/11 19:02|
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So let me get this straight. According to that logic, it was okay with Paul if the Corinthians drank “larger quantities” of wine at home and get drunk?
I don't think I could personally go that far because of other scriptures such as the one you referenced. However, if one actually just lets the scripture speak for itself on this point it is quiet interesting.
20 When you meet together, you are not really interested in the Lord’s Supper. 21 For some of you hurry to eat your own meal without sharing with others. As a result, some go hungry while others get drunk. 22 What? Don’t you have your own homes for eating and drinking? Or do you really want to disgrace God’s church and shame the poor? What am I supposed to say? Do you want me to praise you? Well, I certainly will not praise you for this! 1 Cor 11:20-22.
Notice that Paul didn't tell them NOT to drink wine. He said that the ways in which they were drinking should be done at home. He then almost unbelievably states that they were drunk at the Lords Supper ... and that coupled with the ravenous eating disgraced the church and shamed the poor .... so those things that could possibly disgrace the church or shame the poor should be done at home and not at those gatherings!
Another interesting fact of scripture on this topic is that of overeating. It is mentioned here in the same judgement as drunkenness! Proverbs makes it crystal clear that drunkenness and overeating are seen as pretty much the same thing. A lot of folks that freak out over someone drinking a beer or glass of wine are the first ones to empty out a buffet line and are several pounds overweight. The epitome of hypocrisy is to see some overweight person passing judgement on a person using alcohol in a Biblically sound and responsible way.
| 2016/2/11 19:23||Profile|
| Re: |
"After winning his second Super Bowl title on Sunday evening, star quarterback Peyton Manning said he planned to drink "a lot of Budweiser," adding that he was grateful and planned to thank "the man upstairs" following the big game against the Carolina Panthers."
"I'm going to drink a lot of Budweiser tonight, Tracy, I promise you that," the Denver Broncos quarterback continued, adding, "I'm going to take care of those things first and definitely going to say a little prayer and thank the man upstairs for this great opportunity."
Brothers, Given the topic at hand I can think of better things to contend for and defend than whether one can drink or not.
The statements above, IF THEY ARE TRUE, do not edify or build others up in the faith.
Jude 1:3-5 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. (4) For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (5) I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
As for Peyton God knows his heart and he will stand before Him one day and give an account. Promoting drinking a lot of beer and referring to the man up stairs are a very poor choice of words in my opinion.
I love football (more so College than Pro)and I love when young men stand up for Jesus Christ and go on to live a life in the limelight that continues to emulate and reflect their faith in Him.
I personally do not bear witness with how Peyton used his moment to speak into the hearts of so many. Referring to Jesus as the man upstairs makes one wonder, is he ashamed to mention the Name of Jesus? Or is he trying to apease those who may refer to God by another name? I do not know.
As for the little ones and the weak in the faith, Jesus gave a pretty sound and stern warning:
Matthew 18:6-7 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. (7) Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
The bible tells us that we are to prefer others above ourselves. If this topic causes others to offend or stumble why would we want to contend/defend it?
As I have said before I am not one much for debating and I believe there to be a difference between debating and contending. One is rooted in pride and the other is rooted in love.
This thread has the potential to be one of those that ends up with a lot of comments and thousands of views which would be disheartening in my opinion.
Read more at http://www.christianpost.com/news/peyton-manning-super-bowl-plans-drink-budweiser-praise-god-157092/#PH0ISGsEsgy5BF4v.99
| 2016/2/12 6:55||Profile|
| Re: Peyton Manning and Christianity|
It's amazing that Jesus' first miracle of turning water into wine still offends the sensibilities of many.
God said, "Don't be drunk". Let's not change that to "don't drink". That's Islam, not Christianity.
| 2016/2/12 7:20||Profile|
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I certainly agree that it was unwise for Manning to make those comments.
Even if he was being honest he should have kept it to himself.
I am curious as to how many Buds he actually drank, or if his statement was rather a sports hero way of saying "I'm gonna celebrate."
I think we should give other brothers the benefit of the doubt. From what I have read he is s true brother. Is he Tozer? Nope, but who is. I hope brothers and sisters would give me the benefit of the doubt.
I love this from Oswald Chambers:
"Beware of Criticizing Others:
Jesus' instructions with regard to judging others is very simply put; He says "Don't."....
Criticism serves to make you harsh, vindictive, and cruel, and leaves you with the soothing and flattering idea that you are somehow superior to others. Stop having a measuring stick for other people. There is always at least one more fact, which we know nothing about, in every person’s situation.” ~Oswald Chambers
| 2016/2/12 8:34||Profile|
| Re: |
True that drinking entirely isn't called sinful in scripture, but drunkeness certainly is. And "avoid the very appearance of evil" is in there too. And so is Paul's admonition "not to do anything that may cause a weaker brother to stumble." Announcing your going to drink "lots of Budweiser" on national TV after the super bowl certainly would fit the bill of "making others stumble". I don't see where anyone gets some solid conviction that "he is a brother"? Can someone send me a link of some convincing testimony or something? A passing reference to "the big man upstairs" is just American cultural religious talk, & I don't see any solid Biblical speech or testimony concerning the Gospel. Can someone tell me where that could be found? Not tying to be critical. Just not trying to be naive, undiscerning, or gullible either. I had always heard they were Mormons. And they went to Brigham Young University. And Mormons use similar religious speak (ie Gleen Beck), but have "another gospel, another faith, & another Jesus". But maybe I am wrong that they're Mormon. But some testimony/proof that he is a real believer should be readily available if his faith is genuine - beyond just thanking "the big man upstairs" (which though I know can be off the cuff, still kinda comes off to me as disrespectful sounding & certainly isn't speech picked up from believers reading their Bible & trembling at His Word, but I know a lot of American churchianity religious false converts who use this vernacular. Especially in the south, which is where they are originally from.)
| 2016/2/12 9:08|
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I remember a few years ago when Tim Tebow was taken to task in this forum for his expression of Christianity. He was criticized for praying and thanking God before s watching crowd when he scored a touchdown. He was also criticized for tattooing John 3:16 on his eyebrows.
I simply point the above out. And say... one must wonder??? What is acceptable in this forum?
| 2016/2/12 9:23|
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So let me ask. Is Tim Tebow a Christian? Is he to be regarded as a Christian brother? Does he meet the standards of this forum?
| 2016/2/12 9:27|
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The admonition posted by brother Todd (TMK) is timely and wise.
Before this gets to be a circus act let us give pause and consider if ANY of our lives were covered with the same consistency of PM's by the national media I'm sure we'd all have something that would be able to be viewed with skepticism. Having said that, it's easy to stand off and throw rocks at someone whom we don't really know. Further, if we are as salty as we like to imagine ourselves to be, wouldn't our time be better spent praying/interceding for this man? I mean scripture says "as Jesus is so should we be here on earth".... So do we honestly think Jesus is throwing rocks at PM or interceding for him?
"Remove the log from your own eye....
| 2016/2/12 9:28||Profile|