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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : And what of Damascus?

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proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


  Julius21

I could not find a commentary to support it but that was exactly what I was going to recommend to Bear : read John 14 and understand that Acts 1 is the introduction to what is fixing to take place in Acts 2. It seems so clear by the context.

I did like these commentaries conserning verse 6

Wesley's Notes for Acts 1:6

1:6 Dost thou at this time - At the time thou now speakest of? not many days hence? restore the kingdom to Israel? - They still seemed to dream of an outward, temporal kingdom, in which the Jews should have dominion over all nations. It seems they came in a body, having before concerted the design, to ask when this kingdom would come.

People's Bible Notes for Acts 1:6


Ac 1:6 Wilt thou at this time, etc.? They still held to their old ideas of a worldly restoration of the kingdom of Israel. Their only question was, "Wilt thou restore it 'now'"? After the Holy Spirit was given, this delusion was dismissed, and they understood that Christ's kingdom is not of this world.


 2015/11/30 13:47Profile









 Re:

Julius what are your thoughts on Matthew 24:29-31? Is there yet a literal fulfillment of this passage? Or was this passage fulfilled in 70 AD?

 2015/11/30 13:51









 Re: Julius21

Quote:
by proudpapa on 2015/11/30 13:47:46

I could not find a commentary to support it but that was exactly what I was going to recommend to Bear : read John 14 and understand that Acts 1 is the introduction to what is fixing to take place in Acts 2. It seems so clear by the context.

I did like these commentaries conserning verse 6

Wesley's Notes for Acts 1:6

1:6 Dost thou at this time - At the time thou now speakest of? not many days hence? restore the kingdom to Israel? - They still seemed to dream of an outward, temporal kingdom, in which the Jews should have dominion over all nations. It seems they came in a body, having before concerted the design, to ask when this kingdom would come.

People's Bible Notes for Acts 1:6


Ac 1:6 Wilt thou at this time, etc.? They still held to their old ideas of a worldly restoration of the kingdom of Israel. Their only question was, "Wilt thou restore it 'now'"? After the Holy Spirit was given, this delusion was dismissed, and they understood that Christ's kingdom is not of this world.




Yeah, the disciples still did not get it, as they still were stuck in their rut thinking a physical Davidic Kingdom would be established. Can you blame them? They did not have the Holy Spirit, yet. And then chapter 2, the promise of the Father through Joel the prophet, the Holy Spirit is given and John 14 is fulfilled and Christ has come back to us and will be with us forever, just as He promised.

Bear, need to get a little work done, but will reply to your query about Matthew 24.

 2015/11/30 14:09
brothagary
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Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

He will Return in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that no not God ,and obey not the gospel of Jesus Christ,,,,,,

 2015/11/30 14:10Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5355
NC, USA

 Re:

Bear-

For the record I do believe in a future literal 2nd coming. Just not sure Zechariah 14 is talking about that.

In regard to the Olivet Discourse, the language Jesus used is apocalyptic.

That being said, if you read the account of Josephus regarding the Jewish war with the Romans there indeed were some signs in the sky.

Christians today have no idea how horrible that time was for Jerusalem. It was indeed the greatest tribulation ever known at that time. Read the account. A lot of it is shocking and can only be explained by demons running amok in Jerusalem during the siege.


_________________
Todd

 2015/11/30 14:15Profile









 Re:

Quote: "Bear are you thinking that means Jesus will return in reverse order of how He ascended?"

I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I would still like to quickly drop in here and add my view
It is not so much what i think what that verse means, it is first of all what is written.
What is written in Acts 1:11 is exactly that Jesus will return in reverse order of how He ascended !
This might not add up with the rest of our theology. Now we can assume that we have the right theology and therefore what is written needs to be interpreted until it will fit my "correct " view. This is not the way of studying scripture.

 2015/11/30 15:08
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5355
NC, USA

 Re:

Reasons not to take Zechariah 14 as something to be literally fulfilled in the future:

1) place names mentioned were districts in Jerusalem that no longer exist
2) vs 16 refers to local temple worship. Jesus told woman at the well that that time was at an end
3) keeping of feast of tabernacles- Paul said the feasts were but shadows totally fulfilled in Christ. When you have Christ you don't need the shadows.
4) vs 21 references animal sacrifices. These were abolished - see Heb 9:9-10, Heb 10:4-6 etc
5) it mentions unsaved survivors after the supposed 2nd coming. Paul says there won't be any unsaved people after 2nd coming. See 2 Thess. 1:5-10
6) there are many other references to geologic disturbances in scripture that are not literal(see Mic 1:4, Hab 3:6)
7) there is other reference to Yahweh standing on the Mt of Olives- see Ezekiel 11:23


_________________
Todd

 2015/11/30 15:20Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5355
NC, USA

 Re:

Markus-

In Acts 1 the angels are saying that Jesus will return visibly just as he left. Thus is because the disciples were looking intently into the sky. They do not specifically say where. Granted it could be the Mt of Olives but it may not be.


_________________
Todd

 2015/11/30 15:24Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

I believe the "Day of the Lord" will be a Global.

 2015/11/30 15:41Profile









 Re:

Markus,

What are the "clouds of heaven?"

Do the literalists take these clouds literally? Are there really clouds in heaven?

John did not mention Jesus coming with the clouds in his gospel but he made that statement in his book of Revelation. He said, "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen." Rev 1:7

Those clouds are also mentioned in the Old Testament scriptures. Daniel mentioned them, saying, "I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him." (Daniel 7:13).

What do clouds have to do with anything?

In Acts 1:9, the Word says a "cloud received Him", so does this "cloud" have the ability to "accept" Him?

Acts 1:9
And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Seems to me if it was just a cloud He would have ascended "into" the cloud but this "cloud" RECEIVED Him.

Could "clouds" be spirits of the saints?
Hebrews 12:1
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,


Could the clouds be synonymous with spirits of saints?

Daniel 7:13
I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

Could the Cloud by day and the fire by night be God's Spirit?' I think we know that it was.

Exodus 13:21-22
And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night: He took not away the pillar of the cloud by day, nor the pillar of fire by night, from before the people.

Is the "cloud of the Lord" the same as the Spirit of the Lord?
Exodus 40:38
For the cloud of the Lord was upon the tabernacle by day, and fire was on it by night, in the sight of all the house of Israel, throughout all their journeys.


Back to Acts 1:9 and keeping in mind that Jesus Christ is relational and cares little of inanimate objects except to use them as shadows of realities in heaven?

Who do you think the "clouds" are now that received Christ?

We often have to zoom out on our lens of the Word of God and view many things in the Word to get a total picture and correct understanding.

Jesus is coming back with many saints (clouds). It was NOT His intention to create millions of Sky (CLOUD) Watchers and Star Gazers a la Tim LaHaye, Hal Lindsay, etc.

Who are the " clouds of heaven" in Daniel 7:13?

 2015/11/30 17:45





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