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TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5355
NC, USA

 Re:

In the Zechariah 14 passage, I am not sure where one gets the idea that it is talking about Jesus standing on the Mt of Olives; that idea seems imported into the text. The immediate context of prior verses suggest that it is the Lord (Yahweh) who is standing there. Matthew Henry says this was fulfilled in 70 AD and I don't think he was some preterist weirdo grossly misinterpreting scripture.

Regarding literalness- are we to also take the vision of the two winged women carrying an ephah in ch 5 literally as well?


_________________
Todd

 2015/11/30 9:57Profile
Heydave
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Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

Well if Matthew Henry says so, it must be so!?
No he was probably not a preterist, but he was Amillennial,so that coloured his theology.

Even a casual reading of Zechariah 14 shows it cannot possibly have been fulfilled in AD70.

v.2 Were ALL nations gathered against Jerusalem in AD70?
V.3 Did the LORD fight against those nations in AD70?
v.4 When exactly did the LORD'S feet stand on the mount of Olives in AD70? Did the world miss something here?
v.8 Was there no day or night that day in AD70?
v.9 Was the LORD established as King over all the earth in AD70?

And you can go on verse by verse and see the same.
When does the Lord fight against His the nations gathered against Jerusalem? Here's a clue! Read Revelation 19.

You might try and allegorise this chapter somehow (don't know how), but don't say it was fulfilled in AD70.

We know what the Day of the LORD means, it is future and the same 'day' that Paul speaks about in his epistles. It is the return of Christ.

Why is there this great desire to reject all future prophetic scripture, but somehow accept that there was fulfilled prophecy in the past only. I don't understand this thinking.



_________________
Dave

 2015/11/30 12:11Profile









 Re:

I am just curious: Questions for everyone and anyone.

1) What does "ALL Nations", refer to? Would this be every nation in the world, such as GUAM, New Zealand, etc? Will the Lord be fighting against every single nation in the world?

2) What does "no day or night", mean?

3) Is Jesus right now, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords? Christians pronounce and confess that all the time. We know that Satan is the "god of this world", meaning no other world but this one. But GOD is truly in control, even over the "god of this world". So who is a bigger "KING"?

1Tim 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

 2015/11/30 12:23
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

J asked :RE: ///I am just curious: Questions for everyone and anyone.
1) What does "ALL Nations", refer to? Would this be every nation in the world, such as GUAM, New Zealand, etc? Will the Lord be fighting against every single nation in the world? ///

Michael Pearl writes : Never have Jews and Christians been so in agreement on the soon coming Messiah to save Israel. The Jews are looking for a man of war who will establish a lasting peace, elevating Israel to a place of prominence-the exact ministry of antichrist. Christians are caught up in the fervor and are assisting the Jews to receive the fake Christ when he comes.

add:
Heydave asked RE: ///v.2 Were ALL nations gathered against Jerusalem in AD70?///

Wesley's Notes for Zechariah 14:2


14:2 All nations - The Romans who at that time had the rule over all the nations of that part of the world. The residue - That small number of the Jews who were spared by Titus. Shall not be cut off - Were not forbidden to dwell about the city.


 2015/11/30 12:47Profile









 Re:

Acts 1:11

They also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched him go into heaven."

I would infer from this verse that just as Jesus physically ascended into heaven. He will also physically descend from heaven at His second coming.

So I would respectfully ask. And not mocking anyone's position on eschatology. How was the above fulfilled in 70 AD?








 2015/11/30 13:14









 Re:

Thanks, proudpapa. I never knew that Michael Pearl believed that, but I have not read his Revelation series. I should take some time and read it. But this coincides with the strong delusion spoken of in 2 Thess 2:11.

Quote:
by proudpapa on 2015/11/30 12:47:56

Michael Pearl writes : Never have Jews and Christians been so in agreement on the soon coming Messiah to save Israel. The Jews are looking for a man of war who will establish a lasting peace, elevating Israel to a place of prominence-the exact ministry of antichrist. Christians are caught up in the fervor and are assisting the Jews to receive the fake Christ when he comes.



"And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" (2Th 2:11)

The ramifications of which are simply staggering:
"That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." (2Th 2:12)

Staggering because it seems like millions and millions caught up in Churchianity/religion are being primed for the strong delusion and (great) falling away.

"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." (2Th 2:10)

"Writing to the Jewish Christians in Jerusalem, Paul wanted to emphasize the inaugurated and realized eschatological realities in Jesus Christ. The Jews in Palestine in the middle of the seventh decade of the first century (mid A.D. 60s) were anticipating a hoped-for future of deliverance from Rome and consequent self-rule. The Zealot theme of patriotic Jewish nationalism was at a crescendo. They were confident this would reestablish the Davidic kingdom which they considered to be their God-given right of self-rule in the Palestinian land that they regarded as given to them by God. Paul did not want the Jewish Christians to accept the false hopes for a physical utopian kingdom being offered by the Jewish religionists, but wanted them to base their hope in Jesus Christ alone (cf. I Tim. 1:1)." (page 20 - http://www.christinyou.net/pages/pdfs/HebrewsCommEbook.pdf)

 2015/11/30 13:17
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

RE: ///Thanks, proudpapa. I never knew that Michael Pearl believed that, but I have not read his Revelation series. I should take some time and read it.///

I would not recommend Pearls eschatology he is old school pretrib dispensationalist wrapped up in larkin's dispensational truth, But even with all of that he has enough insight to have made that statement in a recent newsletter,

edit: clarity

 2015/11/30 13:37Profile









 Re:

Quote:

Re:
by bearmaster on 2015/11/30 13:14:21

Acts 1:11

They also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched him go into heaven."

I would infer from this verse that just as Jesus physically ascended into heaven. He will also physically descend from heaven at His second coming.

So I would respectfully ask. And not mocking anyone's position on eschatology. How was the above fulfilled in 70 AD?



Bear are you thinking that means Jesus will return in reverse order of how He ascended?

Jesus is not coming again to "rescue the world" from their own sin. That is the reason He came the first time.

The Scriptures say the "grace of God HATH APPEARED TO ALL MEN".
"For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;" (Titus 2:11-13).

"I will not leave you comfortless: I WILL COME TO YOU. (John 14:18)

"Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; BUT YE SEE ME: because I live, ye shall live also." (John 14:19)

"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may ABIDE WITH YOU FOREVER;" (John 14:16)

"Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; FOR HE DWELLETH WITH YOU, AND SHALL BE IN YOU." (John 14:17)

 2015/11/30 13:37









 Re:

Quote:
by proudpapa on 2015/11/30 13:37:36

RE: ///Thanks, proudpapa. I never knew that Michael Pearl believed that, but I have not read his Revelation series. I should take some time and read it.///

I would not recommend Pearls eschatology he is old school pretrib dispensationalist wrapped up in larkin's dispensational truth, But even he has enough insight to make the previous statement recently, that I quoted..



Good to know, thanks. God did not birth the Church, the "ekklesia", called out ones to be an Evangelical War Mongering cult and I think this is what Michael is noticing.

 2015/11/30 13:43









 Re:

Matthew 24:29-31

But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE IT'S LIHHT AND TGE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPHET AND TGEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.


Brothers I ask these questions respectfully. Do we understand the above passage to be literal or allegory? Has the above passage been fulfilled in 70 AD? If they were fulfilled in 70 AD then how?

....... Caps only the denote Old Testament quotations. Passage was taken out of the new American Standard Bible.......

 2015/11/30 13:46





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