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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Is the Church Israel?

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 Re:

Quote:
by Oracio on 2015/11/24 18:34:00

Thanks Julius. Though I do believe and hope that that post was by the leading of the Lord, I know it's easy to cross the line sometimes.



Absolutely! Seems the consensus of the Church is to move on to other topics.

 2015/11/24 18:38









 Pray brother Oracio

do you have children?

the only reason I ask is that, I trust you saw the grim news today, a Turkish F-16 sent a pair of Sidewinder missiles into a Russian Mig-24, shooting it down, both pilots elected safely, but as they parachuted earthbound, they were murdered in air by jihadists, which is a direct violation of the Geneva convention.

Pray that President Putin maintains a level head, this kind of occurrence is just the spark that starts global warfare.

 2015/11/24 18:53
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re: Pray brother Oracio

Amen Neil, will do. I do have two little ones(6 and7) and a big one(22).


_________________
Oracio

 2015/11/24 19:50Profile









 Re:

Israel in the Old Testament was a "picture" people that God used to illustrate what He would do by means of His resurrection in raising up a people for His own possession. The apostle Peter describes the Church as, "A spiritual house, a holy priesthood to offer up spiritual sacrifices to God by Jesus Christ." (1 Pet 2:5)

Peter continues, "ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an HOLY NATION, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:" (1 Pet 2:9)

The word Gentiles in 1 Pet 2:12 is ethnos (tribe, heathen, nation, people). As the Holy Nation of God (Israel of God, Gal 6:16)) we are to walk uprightly (in Christ) amongst the unbelieving nations/people which includes national Israel.

1Pet 2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

Jacob fought with God, then surrendered to God, having been conquered by the Lord. His name was then changed to Israel.

Gen 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. (Today, Believers in Christ have spiritual "power with God and with men").

The physical nation of Israel in the Old Testament represented a people "set apart" to function as God intended, but they failed because of unbelief and disobedience (Heb. 3:16-4:6).

Through the resurrection of Jesus, the receiving of His Spirit and being joined to the Lord by His Spirit, all Christians become the "set apart" ones, the people of God, or "Israel of God" (Gal. 6:16; Rom. 9:6);

The Church (called out ones) are "set apart" to function as God predestined them to function in Christ. He did not predestine who would be saved but how we would function in Christ by His Spirit. Collectively, people who are functioning "in Christ" are called "Israel". They have fought with God. Subsequently, they surrendered to God having been conquered by Him, SPIRITUALLY.

The resurrection of Christ gives the Church an eternal perspective on who the spiritual people of Israel are.

 2015/12/1 18:04









 Re:

You never stop with your anti-Israel, anti-Jewish perverting of the scriptures do you?
Topic had died but you have to keep bringing up your twisted views over
and over again,

 2015/12/1 21:19









 Re:

Maybe the question of this thread is not carefully chosen and can cause a bit of a confusion.Trying to add a bit of clarity without making things more complicated.

"Church" means Ekklesia, a group of people that are called out.
"I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church. Matthew 16:18
That keeps it very simple. Everyone that the Lord Himself calls out from this world is part of His Ekklesia.
This has nothing to do with our DNA or who our ancestors are etc.

But the Ekklesia is NOT the same as the Kingdom of God.
We know that we will also "see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God "Luke 13:28
That would confirm that any OT saint will by faith by part of the Kingdom, ultimately it will be one Kingdom and Jesus as King of Kings.

 2015/12/1 23:14









 Re:

Hi Markus,

The church includes Old Testament and New Testament Saints.

Acts 7:37
This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him (Jesus) shall ye hear.
Act 7:38 This is he, that was in the CHURCH IN THE WILDERNESS with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us.

The NT Church is a continuation of the "church in the wilderness" and all those who have the faith of Abraham.

All of God's called out ones, that He set apart for Himself, make up the holy nation of spiritual Israel, the Church. (See Hebrews 11, the faith chapter)

That is why Paul says, "not all Israel are Israel", he is differentiating between those of the faith of Abraham and those who are children of the flesh. See Gal. 4.

Jews that have become Christians did not stop being Israel, they became part of spiritual Israel, now.

The children of the flesh always persecute the children of the Spirit.

Galatians 4:28-29
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Note: Children of the Spirit, (faith of Abraham) do not persecute others.

 2015/12/1 23:42









 NDY

Quote:
You never stop with your anti-Israel, anti-Jewish perverting of the scriptures do you?
Topic had died but you have to keep bringing up your twisted views over
and over again,



why would he stop? that would mean he'd have to disobey his true father, the father of all lies, spreading such apostate filthy theology such as "replacement theology".

I know he has no Fear of God, because he keeps referring to "National Israel", when the Prophets foretold of both us Jews BACK in the Land, and foretold of the Suffering Servant, who is Messiah Jesus, ingrafting the Nations into the Vine, such Nations up until that time, rank pagan idol worshippers....then the Jewish Messiah Jesus comes with the express Purpose of gathering both Jew and Gentile (the nations) freeing even this son of the dark's forefathers from the futility of idol worship, into the Arms of Yawhen, where Jesus, who as the Suffering Servant came as the Last Passover Lamb, shed the Precious Blood that is wholly sufficient to cleanse all from all sin......and to spread such wicked apostate lies such as "replacement theology and deny that Israel is NOT of God, by calling the Nation, "National Israel" is an affrontery and DENIAL of both Yahweh's Word and Yahweh's Power.

he should be quaking witlessly with the Fear of God for spreading such lies, but quite obviously he has imbibed the lies of satan like wine, being drunk with his apostasy and arrogance.

But God is loving and slow to anger, giving even fools time to repent from their lies and wickedness.

its late and I am just weary from this clearly "agenda' driven posting, God love you and Messiah keep you, neil

 2015/12/2 0:56
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1522
Germany NRW

 Re:


The church has no covenant with God but that she is grafted in to the holy Olive tree of Israel by displaying Abrahams faith. National and ethnical Israel is at large still comprised of broken out olive branches but at the end of time she will be grafted back in again.

Julius21, your posts from various topics show that you follow a replacement theology agenda starting with Steven Sizer's article. This goes beyond healthy debate. What is your purpose in all of this? What do you try to achieve? Why sowing all this strife?

Romans 11 says
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

 2015/12/2 17:26Profile









 Re:

My purpose is as always, to make a stand for the truth of God's Word.

It was revealed unto the apostle Paul by the Holy Spirit that God's purpose from eternity was to have a chosen people upon this earth at all times until the Lord's return, and that this would be both Jews and Gentiles brought into one body, the church, of which Christ was the head: "Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself that in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth, even in him" (Eph 1:9-10). He continues to show that the middle wall of partition had been broken down between Jew and Gentile, the enmity between them abolished and that they had, by the grace of God through the atoning work of Christ, been made one in Him, and thereby make up the true Israel of God (2:14-15). He adds that God's purpose "that the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel" (3:5,6,10) the same as the Jews, thus making the true Israel of God those who had been made new creatures in Christ Jesus by the new birth and who were now spiritual Israel.

Now turning to the fourth chapter of Galatians, verses 21-31 bring before us Abraham's two sons. The one was by the bondwoman, Hagar, born after the flesh; the other by a free woman, Sarah, born by promise. The story shows in an allegory the difference between unbelieving "Israel after the flesh," and those of all nations who know Christ, have yielded to His claims, and thereby been made free. The apostle shows that the son of the bondwoman pictures the children of "Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children," while the son of the free woman pictures the church: "Jerusalem which is above," which is free and "is the mother of us all."

Thus Paul teaches that believers, as Isaac was, are the children of promise; but with respect to the unbelieving children of the flesh, the Scriptures say: "Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman" (Gal 4:30). In other words, as far as God's eternal purpose is concerned, cast out, remove from consideration the physical, political nation of Israel and her unsaved citizens; for the inheritance belongs to spiritual Israel and not to natural Israel. Paul closes that 4th chapter with these gracious words: "So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman," for the flesh profiteth nothing, "but of the free," because Christ has made us free in Him.

So we see then that now and forever it is only of believers that it can be said: "As many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God" (Rom 8:14), and"the Spirit himself beareth witness with our spirit that we are the children of God: and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ" (Rom 8:16-17). "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. As many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God" (Gal 6:15-16). To be a child of God, and of the true Israel of God, we can be so only by being a new creation in Christ.

After Paul spent one whole letter showing that Israel after the flesh is nothing, that only new creations in Christ avail, that these Judaizers profit nothing, that God now deals with His true Israel, the spiritual seed of Abraham ~then he says: "From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus" (6:17). He is saying: I bear in my heart the mark of circumcision by the Spirit, and in my body the marks of the sufferings for the cause of Christ, as I have been persecuted by the Jews, the children of Abraham born after the flesh; so never speak to me again that Israel after the flesh is God's chosen people, for they are not.

Jesus Christ is Head of a spiritual race of people made up of both Jew and Gentile alike which are now "new creations". This spiritual race of people are the True Israel of God.

L.R. Shelton is a man of God published on SermonIndex. If you would like to read the rest of his sermon, you can read it here. http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/bible/israel2.html

 2015/12/2 17:54





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