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 Re:

Quote:
God is saying, I know what you're going through but I made an agreement to be responsible for you. He said, and My Son ratified that covenant with His own blood. He can't break it because the one who made the covenant with the Father is already at the right hand of the Father. It's all finished. He can't lie."



tuc, what is our part in the "agreement" (covenant)?

A covenant involves two parties.

 2015/11/12 11:38









 Re: God and His own Son Jesus made a covenant together.

Here is what David Wilkerson said in his message "beware of dogs."

"Let me try to explain the New Covenant to you because you and I are under a New Covenant, a new agreement. I don't know when this happened. It could have happened when the foundation of the earth, it could have happened just prior to Christ agreeing to become mediator and come in the flesh. But God and His own Son Jesus made an agreement, They made a covenant. And the covenant was made, in fact the Scripture makes it clear that Christ was given as our covenant. Jesus made an agreement with the Father. In fact, the Father presented this to His Son. He said, if you will go and you become a mediator, you come in the flesh and take on human flesh, God says, I make an agreement with you, I covenant with you that I will hold you by the hand and I will carry you through. I'll never allow Satan to touch you, I will deliver you and I will hold you by the hand and I will keep you. Jesus on the other hand said, I will go Father, and this was His side of the agreement or the covenant. I will go Heavenly Father. And I will not do anything except what I see and hear from You. I will not do anything in my own human flesh. I will obey You exclusively. I will put my life…I will come. I'll take on human nature, but then I'm going to give that human nature back to You. And I'm going to put every confidence…I won't do anything. I'll go anywhere including the cross if You lead me. I will not do anything except what I see and hear You do."

listen here
http://ia600708.us.archive.org/35/items/SERMONINDEX_SID3353/SID3353.mp3

Our part? We are just the beneficiaries and participants of this agreement.

updated this post with this

"The believer who has unconditional faith in God’s promise enjoys complete rest. What characterizes this rest? A full, complete confidence in God’s Word, and a total dependence on His faithfulness to that Word. Indeed, rest is the evidence of faith."

We can place our unconditional faith in God’s promise and a total dependence on His faithfulness to that Word.

 2015/11/12 12:00









 Re: God and His own Son Jesus made a covenant together.

Quote:
by tuc on 2015/11/12 12:00:24

Here is what David Wilkerson said in his message "beware of dogs."

"Let me try to explain the New Covenant to you because you and I are under a New Covenant, a new agreement. I don't know when this happened.



I believe it happened when Jesus died on the cross and spilled His blood? Sound reasonable?

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through THE BLOOD OF THE EVERLASTING COVENANT,

Heb_9:18 Whereupon neither the first testament was DEDICATED WITHOUT BLOOD. (so, the second testament was not dedicated without blood, either).

Heb_9:20 Saying, This is THE BLOOD OF THE NEW TESTAMENT which God hath enjoined unto you.

Quote:
by tuc on 2015/11/12 12:00:24

Our part? We are just the beneficiaries and participants of this agreement.



Don't we have to somehow come into agreement with the Word? Line up our will with His will?

 2015/11/12 12:08









 Re:

You did not finish what he said.

The Bible says that the Lamb was slain BEFORE the foundation of the world.

"I don't know when this happened. It could have happened when the foundation of the earth, it could have happened just prior to Christ agreeing to become mediator and come in the flesh. But God and His own Son Jesus made an agreement, They made a covenant. And the covenant was made, in fact the Scripture makes it clear that Christ was given as our covenant.

 2015/11/12 12:13









 Re:

But, just like us, Christ had to walk it out in space and time. This is what makes Him our forerunner, One who is "touched with the feeling of our infirmities."

The crucifixion of Christ took place in "time" and "space", not in eternity past.

We can't play loose with historical events and then create abstract and mystical ideas completely detached from the historical record. The "Lamb slain" is not a pre-historical event, if it was, then the crucifixion of Jesus on the cross on Golgotha becomes unnecessary. Just a meaningless and repetitive re-enactment.

What it probably means (slain from the foundation of the world) is that in the foreknowledge of God, it was determined that the Word should become flesh (John 1:14) and there would be an historical event in space and time, just like all the events from Genesis to Revelation happened in space and time. Therefore, the Son of God would vicariously die for man and take upon Himself the sins of the world and this would be an historical event. If we create a gnostic, ethereal idea of the death of Christ outside of space and time then everything about Christianity becomes nothing more than mystical abstraction and everything can be spiritualized. Christianity is rooted in documented and confirmed human history. Scripture is historically based. We can't pummel Biblical history as one would trample on grapes, some try to do this and it allows them to transfer New Testament ideas into their interpretation of the Old Testament. We see this today and it creates troubling theologies. Yet, in this way, they are engaging in eisegesis (reading their own interpretations into the Scriptures) rather than exegesis (pulling out of the text the intended meaning).

If we "gnosticize" the Scriptures, we then can say that Old Testament believers experienced all of the spiritual "benefits" of redemption that New Testament believers received from the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ because it really happened in "eternity past". Was redemption made readily available in eternity past? Could Paul accept such reasoning? I think not. Did Jesus die needlessly? (Gal 2:21). What was the reason then that Jesus had to become historically incarnate and die on the cross?

 2015/11/12 12:43
makrothumia
Member



Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 688
Texas

 Re:

The blood of Christ is the blood that sanctifies and makes atonement for the sins of the whole world. Some trample upon that very blood whereby they were sanctified and they insult the Spirt of grace. The punishment for doing so is more severe than death.

The riches of God's grace that He has made to abound to all men is the very basis upon which they are held responsible for rejecting such a great salvation.

Having been sanctified by the blood of Jesus is not immunity from judgment; in fact it increases the responsibility of willful sin beyond any judgment those who rejected the Law of Moses ever experienced.
Their judgment was physical death without mercy.

Only one punishment can be greater than physical death without mercy..

The evil heart of unbelief is the deadliest disease on earth!

Mak


_________________
Alan and Dina Martin

 2015/11/12 12:48Profile









 Re:

Julius is not the New Testament the clearer revelation. I have heard it said that the Old Testament conceals Christ. But the New Testament reveals Christ.

 2015/11/12 13:55









 Re:

Mac you say that sanctified by the blood of Christ is not immunity from judgement. Yet is not the death of Jesus on the cross delivered us from the wrath to come? When 1st John 2 says that he is the propitiation not only for our sins but the sins of the whole world. Has that propitiation not appeased or satisfied the wrath of God by the death of Jesus his son on the cross?

 2015/11/12 13:56









 Re:

Quote:
by bearmaster on 2015/11/12 13:56:32

Mac you say that sanctified by the blood of Christ is not immunity from judgement. Yet is not the death of Jesus on the cross delivered us from the wrath to come?



Hi Bearmaster,

Welcome back.

We do have to "flee from the wrath to come". That requires something on our part. We flee to Christ and we stay there.

Luke 3:7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Don't let any teaching or anyone move you away from Christ.

Col_1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Quote:
by bearmaster on 2015/11/12 13:56:32
Julius is not the New Testament the clearer revelation. I have heard it said that the Old Testament conceals Christ. But the New Testament reveals Christ.



Yes, it is also said of the NT and OT:

Actually, the saying is, "The New is in the Old concealed, and the Old is in the New revealed." For those who are not blinded, Christ can actually be seen in every book of the Old Testament and you can lead someone to Christ with just the Old Testament.

 2015/11/12 14:38
makrothumia
Member



Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 688
Texas

 Re:

I apologize if I was not more specific with my reference. I was quoting the writer of Hebrews and assumed that would be understood.

The idea did not originate with me. But I think you know that.

How can any of us explain that Jesus made propitiation for the sins of the whole world, and yet only a few shall be saved? But this is the record we have.

We have a very secure position as believers and yet Peter warns us of the danger of being led astray by the error of lawless men and falling from that "secure position."

Can any of us adequately explain how we can rejoice in our security while remembering what God did in His severity?

But I admit to believing that men can "trample upon the blood whereby the have been sanctified." I take the warning very seriously, for I believe it was given in that same spirit.

mak




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Alan and Dina Martin

 2015/11/12 14:45Profile





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