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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Letter from Stephen Sizer to Jacob Prasch

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Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2093
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Amen docs and Julius. It'll be a bit of a challenge for me to set aside enough time soon to do it justice but I'll see what I can do.


_________________
Oracio

 2015/11/1 19:23Profile









 Re:

and let us close with a little truth

“But ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel; for they are at hand to come. For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown: And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it ... and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I am the Lord. Yea, I will cause men to walk upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall possess thee, and thou shalt be their inheritance, and thou shalt no more henceforth bereave them of men ... For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean ... A new heart also will I give you ... And I will put my spirit within you ... And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers: and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God ... Not for your sakes do I this, saith the LORD God, be it known unto you” (Ezekiel 36:8-32).

 2015/11/1 19:35









 Re:

Take your time, Oracio.

 2015/11/1 19:41









 Re: Praise the Lord

...that the LORD your God will bring you back from captivity, and have compassion on you, and gather you again from all the nations where the LORD your God has scattered you. If any of you are driven out to the farthest parts under heaven, from there the LORD your God will gather you, and from there He will bring you. Then the LORD your God will bring you to the land which your fathers possessed, and you shall possess it. He will prosper you and multiply you more than your fathers. (Deuteronomy 30:3-5)

 2015/11/1 20:17









 Re:

YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT GOD'S CONDITIONS IF YOU WANT HIS PROMISES. Can't take verses out of context.

Deuteronomy 30:1-3

And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath driven thee, And SHALT RETURN UNTO THE LORD THY GOD and SHALT OBEY HIS VOICE according TO ALL that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, WITH ALL THINE HEART, AND WITH ALL THE SOUL;

THAT THEN, THE LORD THY GOD WILL TURN THE CAPTIVITY and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath scattered thee.

 2015/11/1 20:37
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

context is important Deuteronomy 30:1-2

And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call [them] to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee, 2And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;

 2015/11/1 20:39Profile









 Re:

We are tracking along the same lines PP.

If we take the warnings of the prophets along with the promises, one could make a case that they are about to be exiled or scattered as they are serving other gods and forgotten the Lord.


 2015/11/1 20:41
docs
Member



Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2143


 For julius

docs,

Thank you for your generosity.

Doc: Heck, we're gonna spend eternity together.


_________________
David Winter

 2015/11/1 21:09Profile









 Re: For julius

Yes, we are! :-)

 2015/11/1 21:29
docs
Member



Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2143


 Re: Conditions and Promises

YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT GOD'S CONDITIONS IF YOU WANT HIS PROMISES. Can't take verses out of context.

Deuteronomy 30:1-3

And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath driven thee, And SHALT RETURN UNTO THE LORD THY GOD and SHALT OBEY HIS VOICE according TO ALL that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, WITH ALL THINE HEART, AND WITH ALL THE SOUL;

THAT THEN, THE LORD THY GOD WILL TURN THE CAPTIVITY and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath scattered thee. (END)

Doc: I find it's helpful to remember that Israel's restoration will not be based on meeting conditions of the Mosaic Law. If that be the case they are forever consigned to failure because no man can keep the law. But that was the purpose of the law. It was a divine monkey wrench thrown into any and all of man's efforts to make themselves right with God. The dilemma of the Mosaic covenant was that God commanded them to keep something He knew from the beginning they could not keep. Just before their entrance into the land, Moses said as much when He pinpointed the issue as a issue of the heart.

3 the great trials which your eyes have seen, those great signs and wonders.

4 Yet to this day the Lord has not given you a heart to know, not eyes to see, nor ears to hear. (Deut 29:3-4)

29 Oh that they had such a heart in them, they would fear Me, and keep all My commandments always, that it may be well with them and their sons forever! (Deut 5:29)

But the nation was stubborn and unable to keep all of God's commandments but the main hindrance was within their own hearts. God therefore, by assigning them the keeping of the Law, puposefully put them in a divine dilemma. Although God gave the Law He knew they would not be able to keep His commandments with an uncircucised heart. It's a early lesson that all men are born under sin. The Law helps us see this and drives us to Christ.

Then there is the Abrahamic covenant of grace given 430 years before which is the source of salvation. The Law which came 430 years after cannot nullify the covenant made with Abraham and that covenant is only obtainable in Christ that will eventually make the difference for even modern Israel. People try to say Israel can't succeed because they are not keeping the conditions of the Law. Modern Israel is just as unable to keep God's Law as ancient Israel and it's the problem of a unregenerate and uncircumcised heart. Modern Israel is an open demonstration of man's unregenrate heart. So if they have a future as a godly nation something else is going to have to break in and that will come through the Abrahamic covenant of faith. When God confirmed His covenant with Abraham (Gen 15) He put Abraham to sleep and walked between the pieces of the animals by Himself. Showing man will not be saved by his own efforts under the Abrahamic covenant but God will do it all and is the responsible party to bring it about. The conditions laid down in the Law were to put man to sleep so to speak regarding his own efforts. If people are looking for Israel to start walking with God and embracing Christ it won't be because they are meeting Mosaic conditions to ensure their permanence in the land. One of the issues I see in modern critics of Israel is that they contend Israel isn't meeting the conditions to stay in the land. How true but in a way these critics are holding Israel responsible to keep the law. No man can do this but modern Israel is expected to. Their redmeption will eventually be because of the UNCONDITIONAL grace of the Abrahamic covenant which will circumcise their heart and give them the inward moral ability (Christ in you the hope of glory) to obey God from the heart and keep His commandments. Then their captivity will be turned not just from their enemies but from the sin within them. The thing is the verses for their captivity and exile are taken as literal and the verses of a promised return to the same land with a new circumcised heart are spiritualized and allegorized to such a degree so as to lose their original meaning.


_________________
David Winter

 2015/11/2 6:55Profile





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