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 Re:

Rev 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

I believe this smoke represents "delusion" and look what the smoke darkened. The Light and the Air.

The smoke from the pit is obscuring the light.

Counterfeit Christianity has always been the "smoke" that obscures the LIGHT.

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

And what is the lie?

Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Evangelicals have fallen into humanism (and they deny it). They don't understand union with Christ. They think they function independently of God. That is the lie of Gen 3:5 that they have believed. That is the smoke from the bottomless pit. But, Man is a spiritually dependent being and cannot live to himself.

"For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. " (Rom. 14:7).

2Co 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

At every moment in time we are dependent on one spiritual source or the other (God or Satan) to derive our identity and our behavior. That is the way God created us.

We are branches in a Good Vine or a bad vine.

The endtimes battle is the same battle it has been for millenia, Satan's church against the Church of Jesus Christ.

 2015/10/11 23:38
Lysa
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3401
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re:

Quote:
by JFW on 2015/10/11 23:00:48

I have a question,...

Do any of you saints have insights into what the "strong delusion" sent by God that they should believe a lie is?

I of course have pondered this and one thing in particular seems to be a potential but I was wondering what you all came to?


Again, this is just my opinion, but a 'strong delusion' is whatever we have a propensity for. It can be a person's favorite political party. You can show them the truth of God's word about "whatever" and they can't see it (Dems or Reps) and they will defend their truth to the death.

Or it can be a religious band-wagon of some sort (there's TONS of those!!); pick a topic with them and they will hold more to their band-wagon (belief) than they do the truth of the Scriptures.

It's unending the types of strong delusions there are. If they are in a strong delusion, it's only come after many, many, many, many attempts by God to get them to hear HIS truth but they rejected it.

Zac Poonen has a great sermon on the topic below.

Lovers of Truth
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=4268&commentView=itemComments

God bless,
Lisa


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Lisa

 2015/10/12 5:30Profile
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1438


 Re:

Hi Julius,
I guess the next logical question to you is now that you agree that it is significant is when will this great harvest of souls happen that will swell up the numbers of the church(true believers)?(so we can have a significant falling away)
Or are you saying these people will come to Christ because Christians are being martyred and then these same people will fall away?
Yours Staff

 2015/10/12 6:16Profile
staff
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1438


 Re:

Hi Lysa,
Yes I agree with what you are saying about a personal falling away from sin towards God.
My point all along is that we dont have the numbers in the church at the moment for a falling away that would have any significance.So if the falling away is from the true church then it cant happen anytime soon untl there is a harvest to swell that number up greatly,
Its a very simple point,not complicated.Where are these people that are going to fall away come from?I know that you said earlier i believe that it wasnt only from the church but some are still saying that its from the church only it doesnt add up.The true believing Church is not big enough for this falling away,
Yours Staff

 2015/10/12 6:26Profile









 Re:

Satan is the "father of lies". He was a "liar from the beginning".

John_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

He portrays himself falsely as God (2 Th 2:4), Messiah (2 Cor 11:3), Lord (Rev 9:11), along with his false church of, Apostles (2 Cor 11:3), Teachers (2 Pet 2:1), brethren (Gal 2:4).

The religionists are the people that are deluded, believing the lie of "independence". As they do not abide in the Lord Jesus Christ, at the same time, they would protest vehemently that they are abiding in Satan. But scripture paints a different picture.

"Truly ye bear witness that ye allow the deeds of your fathers: for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchres. Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute: That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation. Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered." (Luke 11:48-52)

"Believing a lie", is believing the LIAR who comes to them as an "Angel of Light", and presents false representations of heavenly things for them to believe which is a false religion system for them to be part of thinking it all is of God. And believing the Liar is abiding in him, being contingent on him and deriving their character and behaviour from him. Believing a lie, is believing all that is false, is really of God. And Satan's false church as a false gospel taught and preached by false teachers and apostles, salvation by works.

1Jn 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

God is still seeking the repentance of religionists. Complete destruction will come later when God "destroys the destroyers" (Rev 11:18, Rev 19:17-18,21).

Rev 8:11 And the name of the star is called WORMWOOD: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

Pro 5:3 For the lips of a strange woman drop as an honeycomb, and her mouth is smoother than oil:
Pro 5:4 But her end is bitter as WORMWOOD, sharp as a twoedged sword.
Pro 5:5 Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell.

Wormwood is equated with bitterness (it is a bitter oil).

"And the LORD saith, Because they have forsaken my law which I set before them, and have not obeyed my voice, neither walked therein; But have walked after the imagination of their own heart, and after Baalim, which their fathers taught them: Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will feed them, even this people, with WORMWOOD, and give them water of gall to drink." (Jer 9:13-15)

The Israelites, (who had turned to false religion) were warned by Jeremiah that God will feed them "WORMWOOD". Look at your own testimonies and testimonies of friends who have "come out of religious Babylon". I have read several, recently here on Sermonindex. The activities of religion create much bitterness. It has polluted many river and waters (Rev. 8:10,11) with it's "bitter" galling poison, and brought (spiritual) death to many men (Rev. 8:11).

Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

 2015/10/12 6:35









 Re:

[by staff on 2015/10/12 6:16:59

Hi Julius,
I guess the next logical question to you is now that you agree that it is significant is when will this great harvest of souls happen that will swell up the numbers of the church(true believers)?(so we can have a significant falling away)
Or are you saying these people will come to Christ because Christians are being martyred and then these same people will fall away?
Yours Staff




Staff,

You have been saying all along, that the number will be great (in terms of numbers).

I have been saying all along that the "falling away" is a great event in terms of being a significant event.

But, you keep trying to put words in my mouth and characterize my statements differently. Look how subtle you are. You mention my word "significant" and then in the same sentence you then throw in your words "great harvest of souls" as if they are my words. They are not my words! They are your words.

Quote:
I guess the next logical question to you is now that you agree that it is SIGNIFICANT is when will this GREAT HARVEST OF SOULS HAPPEN?"



You keep trying to build your case, and since I am not cooperating with you, you resort to making false statements.

We can't get to the next "logical question", since you keep polluting the first question by misrepresenting me.

If you want to believe in the pre-trib Rapture, that's fine. But, I am not drinking your koolaid. Try someone else to ratify your beliefs. You are not being honest with my replies.

 2015/10/12 6:48
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3401
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re:

Quote:
by staff
Hi Lysa,
Yes I agree with what you are saying about a personal falling away from sin towards God.
My point all along is that we dont have the numbers in the church at the moment for a falling away that would have any significance.So if the falling away is from the true church then it cant happen anytime soon untl there is a harvest to swell that number up greatly,
Its a very simple point,not complicated.Where are these people that are going to fall away come from?I know that you said earlier i believe that it wasnt only from the church but some are still saying that its from the church only it doesnt add up.The true believing Church is not big enough for this falling away,


This falling away will include the whole globe and it boggles my mind that you are telling God that the true believing church is not big enough yet (to prove your point)!! LOL

I haven't kept up with the whole thread so I don't know what you're trying to prove. Pre-trib? What?

I used to argue for post but anymore my goal is to attain to the first resurrection and I don't care when it is! "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection..."

God bless you brother,
Lisa


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Lisa

 2015/10/12 7:40Profile
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1438


 Re:

Hi Lysa,
I would think that the falling away is global as you do.
All I am making is two points.
1.If the "falling away" is from the true believing church then the church is too small at the moment for this to be a major global event and would need a vast influx of new christians(a global harvest),and wont happen today or tommorow.
2.On the other hand if the "falling away" is from the whole globe then you cant use that particular scripture in the OSAS debate.(just that particular one scripture)You can use others but not that one.
God Bless
Yours Staff

 2015/10/12 16:27Profile
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1438


 Re:

Hi Julius,
No I have said absolutely nothing false so i refute that totally.
I have built my case already.The church is not big enough for a falling away of the kind spoken about at the moment and their would have to be a harvest to make this event significant.
I have been totally honest with my replies.
I asked does anyone really believe that this is not a big event numbers wise?A question you are afraid to answer but I now think you are basically saying that it isnt as far as i can see but somehow its still significant?how can that be?
I honestly dont think that their is anybody who thinks the falling away is a a small event numbers wise.
Maybe you can explain significant without numbers.I think the falling away and numbers are intrinsically linked,I dont know how they couldnt be,its quality but also quantity
Yours Staff

 2015/10/12 16:43Profile









 Re:

Staff,

You can refute all you want, but what you have said is in writing.

By the way, it may not be great in numbers but it is significant to the Lord if even 1 out of 100 sheep go astray.

It's not about math.

 2015/10/12 18:09





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