SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Looking for free sermon messages?
Sermon Podcast | Audio | Video

Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : What place does baptism have in Biblical salvation?

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Re:

I think it's best to just state. That it is TRULY just like a Ring in a Marriage. I got this by revelation and I know i posted this in the other topic (almost same). But hear me out.

We are Charasmatic Christians, correct? (Maybe not all, but general). We believe in the gifts, and the Life that Jesus lived, and that we can Live it too.

Well, in a Marriage, There is a name change, ring, honeymoon, engagement period, and life after honeymoon.

Christ kneels down and says to everyone of us 'Are you willing to COMMIT your life to Me?'

If we say 'Yes', we are going to go through an engagement period. We can drop out (as many do now-a-days). But then there is the wedding, at the wedding, (where is a PUBLIC confession) of your 2 love for each other. You receive your Ring (Get baptised). And by the end of the ceremony your name is changed. (Saul> Paul, Jacob>Israel, Abram> Abraham, Simon>Peter). Now, after you get married, you can go on the honeymoon (receive the Holy Spirit, empowerment, reveiling of gifts..etc).

Now, does the ring have anything to do with the marriage? YES!, is it required to be married? NO! but why would you refuse the ring of the one you SAY you love?

Does the honeymoon have anything to do with the marriage? YES!, is it required to be married? NO! but why would you refuse the honeymoon, something WOMEN (every human being) look forward to in life.

Many people say 'i have no need of a ring', 'i have no need of a honeymoon to express my love for Him'.

If Christ paided for it, why not take it? The baptist, presbyterians, methodist, lutherans ..etc. have TAKEN the ring, but said 'no' to the Honeymoon.

Take your ring, there is no reason to say no to it. Go on your honeymoon cause it will be an amazing time.

Your life (walk) doesn't need a ring, or honeymoon, but wouldn't you think it would be better if you had done them?

Thanks for hearing me

 2005/5/26 21:59
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
I think it's best to just state. That it is TRULY just like a Ring in a Marriage. I got this by revelation

The ring and the honeymoon are good illustrations but water-baptism is not an illustration in the same sense. It is a royal edict and not subject to the vagaries of culture and century; it is spirtual sign-language.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/5/27 4:02Profile









 Re:

Quote:
It is a royal edict and not subject to the vagaries of culture and century; it is spirtual sign-language.



What? We are talking of spiritual correct? Didn't Christ speak in the same fasion as the revelation that i received? Christ SPOKE in parables. We(body of Christ) are the Bride of Christ are supposed to teach as our HUSBAND taught. The bible CLEARLY states we are the BRIDE of Christ. Don't shun parables, because its BY PARABLES Christ taught, and its HOW WE learn.

 2005/5/27 20:49
ReceivedText
Member



Joined: 2005/4/22
Posts: 257
Seattle, Washington, USA

 Re: YeshuaIsMyGd

YeshuaIsMyGd,

You missed Ron's point. He wasn't bashing your illustration. He was trying to bring your thoughts more into line with the Word. You mentioned how some refuse the "ring" but can still be married. Jesus is the King. You can't refuse His ring. You just don't have that right.

It wasn't your parable. It was that you got a little off track.

(Am I wrong, Ron?)

RT

 2005/5/27 21:20Profile
tinluke
Member



Joined: 2005/4/8
Posts: 220
New England USA

 Re: Modivarch..just my opinion

Hi Modivarch,

I hope this answers your question. I like to speak plainly..so I hope my point comes across. I personaly do not think Jesus is interested in steps! He is interested in one thing...our hearts! Did he say to the theife on the cross; ok you believe me, now you have to get baptised, repent, recieve the spirit?? Absolutely not!! He saw the man's heart.

He did say if you Love Me you will obey me. And if you love Jesus, He will show you what is right.
The only thing we can really do for Jesus is lay down our life and let Him become our everything.

I became baptised about a year after I was saved. I didn't feel that my salvation hung on me being baptised, but it was something that I wanted to do. I felt that it was an outward expression of the love I had for the Lord.

I think we try to complicate things. Didn't Jesus say that we needed to become like these (little children) to inherit the kingdom. ;-)

p.s. Just an after-thought...He is no respector of persons, so if He let the theife into heaven without a babtism, I guess it's safe to say that salvation does not depend on baptism.


_________________
tina

 2005/5/27 21:29Profile









 Re:

Quote:

ReceivedText wrote: You mentioned how some refuse the "ring" but can still be married. Jesus is the King. You can't refuse His ring. You just don't have that right.



Did i say that? If you refuse a ring, do you REALLY love that person? NO, your SPITTING on that person. If you SKIP it, by ignorance, you won't go to hell for not doing it. I know many people get saved, who Witnessed more than we all have probly combinded, and they die, without baptism. Did they go to hell? Our faith is by BELIEF AND ACTION! Repentance=forgiveness, not baptism. Baptism is just a SIGN for the repentance. If a church teaches, 'no need for a baptism', i believe that God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city (rev.22:19). Now, is there a NEED of Baptism (the ring of our Husband). YES!!!

Is it required? No, but strongly taught, and urged.


If you saw a women walking down the street and you looked at her and see no ring, you would say *if you were looking for a girl*, 'Hmm, your single, lets go out'.(para-phrase of cource) She would say 'Im married, i just never got a ring'. Hmm, a little odd, isn't it? Wouldn't that be WEIRD, and not traditional. In this case, you DONT wanna be a 'rare breed', but if there is water 'what is their to refrain you from being baptisted'? (i believe thats a verse).

 2005/5/27 23:10
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
You missed Ron's point. He wasn't bashing your illustration. He was trying to bring your thoughts more into line with the Word


I was not even trying to bring it 'into line'. I was just making the point that personal 'revelation' must never be used to prove biblical revelation, (unless your name is Jake, of course!} The ring 'revelation' is an intereting illustration for western culture but most of the world is not western and know nothing of wedding rings or engagement rings. We must not impose our 'revelations' on others and I am sure you were not implying this. But 'water baptism' is not the same kind of cultural illustration, it is a universal commandement from Christ Himself. Wedding rings and the like are only applicable to certain cultures; water-baptism is cross-cultural and universally applicable.

Here's little bit of 'language trivia' for you. Paul refers to the coming of the Spirit as an earnest or pledge; the Greek is arrabOn... 2Cor. 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
2Cor. 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
Eph. 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. The word is still used in modern Greek. It is the word for an engagement ring. This is actually a better illustration than water-baptism as an engagement ring. water-baptism can be administered by another but Spirit-baptism, like an engagement ring, is a personal gift from the hand of the Beloved One.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/5/28 5:28Profile









 Re:

that was good. but why would you preach 2 baptisms? is there? this is something ive been praying about.

Yes, it might not be universal. But alot of our own parables aren't universal. Something instead of ring/honeymoon/etc..etc.. there is gotta be something to fulfill those.

I'm not placing my spiritual revelation Higher than biblical words. Far be it to me to do that, or anyone for that matter. ALL spiritual revelation should be BACKED by scripture.

 2005/5/28 20:30









 Re:

Yeshua said:
that was good. but why would you preach 2 baptisms? is there? this is something ive been praying about.


Stever's response:

There are indeed two Baptism's. Christ was focused on the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and so was Paul. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit empowers the believer to witness to the lost and go about the work that Christ has commanded us to do for His Kingdom.

My wife and I were both water baptized many years ago. On 6/4/1999 we were both baptized in the Holy Spirit while at a Bible study at a friends home. That Baptism has been the turning point in our Christian walk and truly changed our lives.

God bless,


Stever

 2005/6/4 23:48
ReceivedText
Member



Joined: 2005/4/22
Posts: 257
Seattle, Washington, USA

 Re:

Quote:
Stever's response:

There are indeed two Baptism's. Christ was focused on the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and so was Paul. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit empowers the believer to witness to the lost and go about the work that Christ has commanded us to do for His Kingdom.



It is actually the baptism "in" the Spirit, not of. It is Jesus who baptizes.

Let me ask you something. What is the difference between receiving the "indwelling" of the Spirit and receiving the "baptism" in the Spirit SCRIPTURALLY?

Before you answer, please know that I was raised and educated in Classical Pentecostalism. So I am well familiar with this issue. I am a Biblicist above all and will go with Scripture on any given issue. You seem to be the same way. So let's talk about this. Should be edifying for both of us.

RT

 2005/6/5 2:53Profile





©2002-2019 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy