SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Looking for free sermon messages?
Sermon Podcast | Audio | Video

Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : What place does baptism have in Biblical salvation?

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Re:

Quote:

YeshuaIsMyGd wrote:
So are you stating that the Only ONE baptism that is spoke of is that of Jesus, when you RECEIVE the Holy Spirit? thats what im getting outta this.


--------------------

Stever's response:

See my post to Nasher on this thread.

God bless,

Stever

 2005/6/11 1:21









 Re:

RT said:
So, my friend Steve, why were they baptized in water, but not receive the Holy Ghost according to what we read here?

We know that if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. (Rom. 8:9) Just when DID they get born again? Just when DID they FIRST receive the Holy Ghost. This Scripture seems to say that it wasn't until AFTER they believed and were baptized. What say you?

----------

Stever's response:
The baptism in the Holy Ghost is a crisis experience just as our initial conversion experience was. We cannot be gradually baptized in the Holy Spirit, just as we cannot be gradually baptized in water. Certainly we can be gradually filled with God's Spirit, but one day that "filling" will spill over into a baptism or complete immersion in the Holy Ghost. Many believe they need not ask for this experience because they think they receive the Holy Spirit at conversion. While this is true in the sense that the Holy Spirit comes upon us, and in us, to plant the seed of life in Christ, it is not true that we are completely filled with His Spirit unless we ask for it. "...How much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" (Luke 11:13).

Many people have been "born again" and have the Holy Spirit working in their lives, but have never received the baptism in the Holy Ghost which equips them for service and gives them the power needed to overcome in Christ. "For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence...But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth" (Acts 1:5 and 8). If you, as a Christian, have not known the power of God in being able to overcome sin, to witness and to know God in His fullness, then you need to ask God for the baptism in the Holy Ghost. There were also Christians in Paul's day who did not know about the power that was available to them. We find this recorded in Acts 19:2-6:

"He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. THEN SAID PAUL, JOHN VERILY BAPTIZED WITH THE BAPTISM OF REPENTANCE, SAYING UNTO THE PEOPLE, THAT THEY SHOULD BELIEVE ON HIM WHICH SHOULD COME AFTER HIM, THAT IS, ON CHRIST JESUS. WHEN THEY HEARD THIS, THEY WERE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS. AND WHEN PAUL HAD LAID HIS HANDS UPON THEM, THE HOLY GHOST CAME ON THEM; AND THEY SPAKE WITH TONGUES, AND PROPHESIED."

THIS SCRIPTURE CLEARLY SHOWS US THERE IS MORE THAN ONE KIND OF BAPTISM. THESE CHRISTIANS HAD RECEIVED WATER BAPTISM, BUT NOT THE HOLY GHOST BAPTISM UNTIL PAUL LAID HIS HANDS ON THEM AND PRAYED. WE ALSO SEE THAT THE GIFTS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT ACCOMPANY THIS BAPTISM, AS THEY SPOKE IN TONGUES AND PROPHESIED.

Another account of this taking place is found in Acts 8:14-20: "Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
====================

 2005/6/11 1:32









 Re:

Ron B. posted:
This is the line adopted by those who support infant baptism, dancing, animal noises, A MAN-ORDAINED PRIESTHOOD, smoking and any number of things. I don't think you would be happy to see it used in these practices?

Stever's response:
You have to be kidding. Is this the way that you try to manipulate opinion, trying to make your point? The "Altar Call" has nothing in common with "infant baptism, dancing, animal noises, ---------------, smoking and any number of things". How sad, and you are a Pastor?

When I was first saved I went to many Churches- Baptist, Brethren, Methodist and many of them had "Altar Calls in the 60's & 70's. Only wihin the past 30 years have the majority of Churches stopped this practice.

In regards to you inlclusion of "a man-ordained priesthood" in the above wacko list ---it tells me all about who you really are. You are a LIBERAL who doesn't realize that God is the one who set up the MAN ORDAINED PRIESTHOOD. It is men like you who are trying to tear it down. It is not "politically correct" right now to BELIEVE GOD'S WORD, is it? Is it just England that is going along with this insanity in such intensity, or is it throughout Europe as well? I suppose the next thing that you will be posting here is that God is a woman! That seems to be the latest new craze with the feminists who consider themselves to be Christians in Europe. At least with your opinion mirroring theirs they won't be angry with you. The problem is that Jesus Christ is shedding tears over what you have posted here.

God bless,

Stever

 2005/6/11 2:21









 Re:

RT said:
We know that if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. (Rom. 8:9) Just when DID they get born again? Just when DID they FIRST receive the Holy Ghost. This Scripture seems to say that it wasn't until AFTER they believed and were baptized. What say you?
------------------

Stever's response: We are born again when we believe that Jesus Christ is LORD. That is when we receive the Holy Spirit that lives in our hearts. We do not need to be baptized in water to receive this gift, it comes from our belief in HIM. Look at all of the millions of people that receive Jesus Christ with their dying breath. Do they need water baptism to be saved, to receive the Holy Spirit? The answer is no, and again the example is the thief on the cross.

The baptism in the Holy Ghost is a EXPERIENCE THAT WE NEVER CAN FORGET. Time starts all over at that point---- Certainly we can be gradually filled with God's Spirit, but one day that "filling" will spill over (I call it the overflow)into a baptism or complete immersion in the Holy Ghost. Many believe they need NOT ASK for this experience because they think they receive the Holy Spirit at conversion. While this is true in the sense that the Holy Spirit comes upon us, and in us, to plant the seed of life in Christ, it is not true that we are completely filled with His Spirit unless we ask for it. "...How much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" (Luke 11:13).

God bless,


Stever

 2005/6/11 2:44
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
You have to be kidding. Is this the way that you try to manipulate opinion, trying to make your point? The "Altar Call" has nothing in common with "infant baptism, dancing, animal noises, ---------------, smoking and any number of things". How sad, and you are a Pastor?


It was no attempt to manipulate opinion, as God is my witness. I would never engage in such. One of the watchwords of my life is 2Cor. 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. It was simply showing that your position of 'if the Bible doesn't forbid it, it's OK' is open to serious problems. I regard 'manipulation of opinion' as a grave sin in preachers. Now that you have descended to the level of personal abuse, I will withdraw from this thread.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/6/11 3:02Profile
ReceivedText
Member



Joined: 2005/4/22
Posts: 257
Seattle, Washington, USA

 Re:

Quote:
In regards to you inlclusion of "a man-ordained priesthood" in the above wacko list ---it tells me all about who you really are. You are a LIBERAL who doesn't realize that God is the one who set up the MAN ORDAINED PRIESTHOOD. It is men like you who are trying to tear it down. It is not "politically correct" right now to BELIEVE GOD'S WORD, is it? Is it just England that is going along with this insanity in such intensity, or is it throughout Europe as well? I suppose the next thing that you will be posting here is that God is a woman! That seems to be the latest new craze with the feminists who consider themselves to be Christians in Europe. At least with your opinion mirroring theirs they won't be angry with you. The problem is that Jesus Christ is shedding tears over what you have posted here.



I doubt very much that tears in heaven are being shed over what my brother Ron has posted here. And I have read a lot of his posts. Now yours??? I'm not the judge of that.

But I just wanted to come to my brother's defense and say that he is NOT a liberal and shouldn't have to defend himself from such off the wall lunacy such as you have written.

RT

 2005/6/11 3:07Profile









 Re:

RT--Ron is a big boy, let Ron defend himself.

Do you agree with Ron's statement that the Male Ordained Priesthood, established by God at Mt. Sainai is equal to the error of : infant baptism, dancing, animal noises, & smoking and any number of things?

Do you think that Ron’s statement is Biblically correct and in agreement with God’s Word?

Whether you support him or not, you can surely not supprt his statement above, can you?

God bless,


Stever

 2005/6/11 3:20
ReceivedText
Member



Joined: 2005/4/22
Posts: 257
Seattle, Washington, USA

 Re: Not clear

Quote:
Stever's response: We are born again when we believe that Jesus Christ is LORD. That is when we receive the Holy Spirit that lives in our hearts.



Chapter and verse please? And Jn. 3:16 doesn't count. Please provide a single verse that says, in effect, "when a person believes, the Holy Spirit enters him."

To this point, much of what you have written lately is not Scripturally supported, but sounds like you are re-gurgitating something you have been taught by a preacher, not what you have gleaned by your own Bible reading.

Now WHO is the liberal???

Quote:
Look at all of the millions of people that receive Jesus Christ with their dying breath. Do they need water baptism to be saved, to receive the Holy Spirit? The answer is no, and again the example is the thief on the cross.



No one is saying that you need water to receive the Spirit. Cornelius evidently didn't, though he was immediately immersed in water after this experience.

Last time I checked, the theif on the cross died before the day of Pentecost. So how could he have received the Holy Spirit if the Holy Spirit was not yet poured out on all flesh?

Quote:
The baptism in the Holy Ghost is a EXPERIENCE THAT WE NEVER CAN FORGET. Time starts all over at that point---- Certainly we can be gradually filled with God's Spirit, but one day that "filling" will spill over (I call it the overflow)into a baptism or complete immersion in the Holy Ghost.



Chapter and verse?? Where do you see this taught in Scripture? Namely that we are baptized, but it doesn't "spill over" into a "complete immersion"?? This is YOUR teaching and I challenge you to prove me otherwise.

Quote:
While this is true in the sense that the Holy Spirit comes upon us, and in us, to plant the seed of life in Christ, it is not true that we are completely filled with His Spirit unless we ask for it. "...How much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" (Luke 11:13).



This Scripture doesn't prove your point. It simply says that in order for the Holy Spirit to be "given" ("given" implies "for the first time" - you don't need to ask for what you already have), you may ask and God will give.

Where is your Scriptural support? I'm really trying hard to see your points here, but it is pretty weak.

I suggest you taking your preserved KJV and reading it again, but this time try reading it like it were the first time you had ever read it. (Of course adding proper logical hermeneutic to your reading)

Just a suggestion.

RT

 2005/6/11 3:21Profile
ReceivedText
Member



Joined: 2005/4/22
Posts: 257
Seattle, Washington, USA

 Re: You misunderstand

Steve,

I think you don't get what Ron was saying. Here's his own explanation of what he said:

Quote:
It was simply showing that your position of 'if the Bible doesn't forbid it, it's OK' is open to serious problems. I regard 'manipulation of opinion' as a grave sin in preachers. Now that you have descended to the level of personal abuse, I will withdraw from this thread.



Get it? Your LOGIC was way off. Not any one subject like "priesthood" in comparison to "animal noises." He was checking you on your very bad logic.

And I will echo him. You can't say, "If you can't show me where the Word prohibits THIS (altar calls, fill in the blank), it can't be wrong." The Bible doesn't directly prohibit smoking marijuana!! So if the Bible doesn't specifically prohibit it, can we do it??? Should we do it??

The Bible doesn't say we CAN'T go out in the woods, sit in a circle with our legs crossed, paint our faces, paint our left toe red, and hum the tune to "Amazing Grace"!!!! It doesn't say we CAN'T do that. But if someone DID do that, I would think that the practice is a bit STRANGE and definitely UNNECESSARY!!

If you told me that somehow it HELPED bring the "red toe cult members" to Christ, I would still say, "You don't have to do that to lead people to Christ."

It isn't the THING or SUBJECT, it is your LOGIC that says, "If it doesn't say anything against it, then I'm gonna do it." Fine. Just don't ask the rest of us to join you. Get it?

RT

 2005/6/11 3:37Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Do you agree with Ron's statement that the Male Ordained Priesthood, established by God at Mt. Sainai is equal to the error of : infant baptism, dancing, animal noises, & smoking and any number of things?


God-ordained priests are ordained by God. man-ordained priests are ordained by man. Man-ordained has nothing to do with male or female. I do not believe that men can ordain priests. Hope that makes things more clear for you.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/6/11 4:15Profile





©2002-2019 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy