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Jimm
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 498
Harare, ZIMBABWE

 Re:

Okay time out guys…

I have not said, that I can never control the prophesies but I have said at times (rarely) there is so much unction I can resist it. Most times I can just ignore the word He has placed on my heart but other times when I am deep in the Spirit the word flows almost involuntarily, not that I’ve really tried my hardest to stop the word (I have never had the desire to do so) but I have to say when the Lord will speak He will speak. Who can resist the Lord? It is difficult to explain except to those who speak in tongues; when you speak in tongues you can almost always control it (stop and start at will) but there are times when the groanings of the Spirit and the tongues have a much firmer lead than usual. Can anyone relate here?

James


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James Gabriel Gondai Dziya

 2005/5/4 11:57Profile
Jimm
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 498
Harare, ZIMBABWE

 Re:

Quote:
What manor of spirit are the words coming out? I think we misunderstand the prophets and tend to clump together a lifetime of workings and in turn loose what the prophet was all about. There are 'snapshots' of their lives recorded for us; but are we to suppose that Elijah ran and overtook the horseman everyday? There is a lot of living going on between the sansational events.



Thank you Brother Robert. I also add that the only prophets who became acclaimed were the ones who had a special task set for them to accomplish in the Lord. Many of them suffered the fate of those who were eventually killed by Jezebel at the time of Elijah, laboring for the Lord in obscurity…wondering around in sheepskins and goatskins…

We’re just average Joes just sent forth in the hope that the average Joe can relate, but ironically the “average Joe” is not looking for the “average Joe”.


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James Gabriel Gondai Dziya

 2005/5/4 12:06Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Hi Ironman,

Quote:
Now why God chose me for this I have no clue, all I can say is that this is what He willed for my life and so here I am. He did warn me that this responsibility/office will come with mockery, rejection and then becoming hated among men. If you knew the half of drama that comes with this responsibility.



I think it is important to place a perspective here. Moses once said; "would to God that all His people were prophets..." If a person is FULL of the Holy Ghost they will live a life that is sure to encounter persecution. Why? Because all that live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. This is not an exclusive club; it is the natural outworking of the Holy Spirit in us.

Quote:
I guess working for God in any othe capacity isn't so hard because at least there is a level of acceptance that comes with being an exhorter, teacher etc. For a prophet however, the road is lonely coz God sends one forth and noone wants to hear what God has to say through Him, that sucks. In all honesty I don't care if anyone hears and responds to what God puts on my spirit because my job is simply to say what I am told to say and do what I am told to do.



I would say that introducing ones self as a 'prophet' may cause some rejection right off. Also Jeremiah wept bitterly when the people rejected his messages. Prophets did not just carry a surrogate message, but God birthed in them a word to which became part of them. They were often on emotional rollercoasters. Even Jonah was not indifferent to the reception of the message. He seemed to wish they would reject it and be judged. These were men who gave their lives for the word they spoke. It is always in the interest of the prophet that the people hearken to the message. God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked- nor should we.


*********************************

Quote:
In all honesty I don't care if anyone hears and responds to what God puts on my spirit because my job is simply to say what I am told to say and do what I am told to do.



compare to:


Quote:
People are looking for prophets, well here we are, yet how is it that when the Lord sends us forth with a word for the church noone wants to listen? That grieves my spirit more than anyone could ever know. It's not that I'M not being listened to that bothers me but rather that what God is speaking through me is not being heeded. That is what brings my spirit grief.





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Robert Wurtz II

 2005/5/4 12:20Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Robert
let me clarify. it does grieve me in the spirit but me saying I don't care is not saying I don't grieve but rather I don't have any say in whether people will heed the message so I'm not going to worry about that. I know that there seems to be a contradiction there so I wanted to clear that up.

concerning the rejection due to being filled with the Holy Spirit, I agree I was just stating that as a prophet there is a lonliness that perhaps amplifies or makes the rejection of being filled with the holy spirit a bit different or harder maybe.

when you said emotional rollercoaster I can relate to that.


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Farai Bamu

 2005/5/4 12:31Profile
Compton
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
it's funny you should say though that it should be evident that I am prophet. How can that be if noone wants to hear from the prophets of GOd?



IRONMAN, I guess I wasn't saying anything in insistance...I was wondering aloud. I have so many questions. Yes, there does seem to be a sad paradox with the Spirit of Truth in the church. Do we want to hear or do we want to have our ears tickled?

However, my questions remain. Philologos, I believe, helped a great deal by using the word "service" instead of "office", just as function is more important then form. Do we prophecy because we are prophets, or are we prophets because we have prophesied? That is what I mean by "self-evident". Who cares what I am called if I do indeed have the words of life?

This leads me back to the title of this thread. What is the credentials of a prophet...that I may recognize one? A police officer wears a badge and therefore represents the city government. Imagine if there were vigilantes, fueled by righteous indignation, roaming in and out of jurisdictions arresting and condemning without a warrant from the government? The entire judicial system, city, state, and federal, would be nothing more then the strong ruling the weak.

I do not mean to hurt anyone, but a sure conviction that one is a prophet representing God means nothing to me. I must ask to see a badge. If you want in my house where my family lives, I must also see your warrant.

In the meantime, I will greatly esteem the desposit and the outworking of the Holy Spirit that is evident in your life. By your example I can be shown what true repentance and a closer walk with Jesus looks like.

Thanks guys,

MC


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Mike Compton

 2005/5/4 12:52Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

Quote:
IRONMAN, I guess I wasn't saying anything in insistance...I was wondering aloud. I have so many questions. Yes, there does seem to be a sad paradox with the Spirit of Truth in the church. Do we want to hear or do we want to have our ears tickled?



I see, I was not adressing you directly with the statement you responded to but rather it's a general assessment of the church. It has always been so, people called for prophets and when they came they rejected them. You are right when you ask do we want our ears tickled or to hear truth. mOst people would rather have their ears tickled and this is nothing new.

I guess we prophecy because we are prophets and we are prophets because we prophecy. I don't think you can really separate the 2, it seems to me that would be rather involving, I could be wrong of course.

As far as prophetic credentials perhaps we would do well in looking at the prophets of old. What were they all about? what sort of people were they? Mostly just average joes that God used in the hope that average joe might be able to appeal to the other average joes. I mean there wasnt anything special really about these guys. I can't say to you I am a prophet because I have this and that attribute all I can say is that God called me. I am unworthy of Him, even so unworthy as to be unworthy of Him TELLING me that I am unworthy.

I have no badge except that God simply told me so. I can do no more than I am told but after having done so, whoever the word is directed toward must then go before God with it and work it out with HIm. I guess it would be easier if lightnings and thunderings came with the words of each prophet, but then again who is to say that that is enough though? I mean that may be enough to convince you MC but maybe not bro Ron or Robert, bro Mike or Rahman etc, see what I mean?


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Farai Bamu

 2005/5/4 13:36Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Hi Ironman,

Quote:
I mean that may be enough to convince you MC but maybe not bro Ron or Robert, bro Mike or Rahman etc, see what I mean?



None should follow signs and wonders in these last days as evidence of the legitimacy of a prophet because of what are known as "lying signs and wonders." The enemy will exercise great power in these last days and would draw away if possible even the very elect. We have a record already as to the basic parameters of the 'content' of any prophetic message as it pertains to doctrinal things- and that is the Word of God. Other messages of repentance or exhortation can be discerned by those in whom the Spirit of God dwells providing the messengers are where they need to be with God. This is critically important.

I believe God speaks to folk today. I also believe God is putting a word of repentance and restoration in the mouths of His messengers. Yet, as those who believe in the moving of the Holy Spirit in our times we have to caution ourselves against getting overly esoterical in our relationship with God. I call this 'excess' "flakesville" for short. I talk a bit about it in the audio message "survival of the revival." Revivals blow apart when people keep seeking deeper spiritual experiences in God when He is trying to lead them in other directions.

Another caution is not to get the idea that our office is somehow exclusive. I may 'serve' in a variety of offices over the course of time, but that does not give me some sort of special rank or something. No one paid homage to the prophets that I recall- especially in their lifetime.

C.S. Lewis once warned that there are two extremes that people fall into when it comes to the supernatural;

1) Not to believe in it at all
2) To have an 'unhealthy interest' in it.

I think this can apply here. We need to focus on being balanced Christians as the Holy Spirits leads. If a Prophet arises today he or she will be a Christian right? They will be Christlike and yield the fruit of the Spirit? They will be all of what God calls us to be because they are 'Prophets.' Prophet is a heavy or should I say a 'very tall order.' Daniel had an 'excellent spirit' and was of great integrity. His devotion to God and his devotional life was unique.

The problem with many who wish to be a prophet today is that it forces them to devote so much time to seeking God prophetically that they neglect the most basic Christian duties towards family and work, etc. Pretty soon they find themselves in some sort of question while believing they are growing more Spiritual. Can a person in our day really be a prophet and a genuine New Testament Christian at the same time? Would he/she spend as much time examing self as they would others? I think you get my point.

God Bless,

-Robert


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Robert Wurtz II

 2005/5/4 14:18Profile
ZekeO
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re: Are we heading the right way?

Quote:

Compton wrote:
This leads me back to the title of this thread. What is the credentials of a prophet...that I may recognize one?



I think that Elijah and John cannot be the only models that are seen as truely prophetic. Jeremiah wept his eyes sour, Isaiah lived like a nobel. So as far as models go, there is something inside all of us that wants to battle the priests of baal, and call down fire from heaven, but is that what a NT prophet is?

Getting back to Ephesians 4, I have heard it said that these are not just gifts as in the gifts of 1 Cor 12, but are men(women?). God himself has raised up people themselves that are the gifts to the church.


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2005/5/4 14:34Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Br Mike wrote:

Quote:
Let me preface by observing that sometimes we discuss the fruit of the spirit as a series of different individual fruits (plural). I believe this defective idea is the result of our having believed that Christ-likeness does not flow from the fullness of His indwelling spirit but from "practicing" or imitating various traits through good intentions. We talk in terms of seeking the virtures of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, ect. instead of looking for the abiding with Jesus that grows ever closer and deeper.



Many times in Scripture it is difficult to tell whether David is speaking of himself or prophesying of His Lord. Here is one example of David's heart being one with His Lord.

Psa. 22:0 To the Chief Musician. Set to “The Deer of the Dawn.” A Psalm of David.

Psa. 22:1 My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?
Why are You so far from helping Me,
And from the words of My groaning?
2 O My God, I cry in the daytime, but You do not hear;
And in the night season, and am not silent.
3 But You are holy,
Enthroned in the praises of Israel.
4 Our fathers trusted in You;
They trusted, and You delivered them.
5 They cried to You, and were delivered;
They trusted in You, and were not ashamed.
6 But I am a worm, and no man;
A reproach of men, and despised by the people.
7 All those who see Me ridicule Me;
They shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
8 “He trusted in the LORD, let Him rescue Him;
Let Him deliver Him, since He delights in Him!”
9 But You are He who took Me out of the womb;
You made Me trust while on My mother’s breasts.
10 I was cast upon You from birth.
From My mother’s womb
You have been My God.
11 Be not far from Me,
For trouble is near;
For there is none to help.
12 Many bulls have surrounded Me;
Strong bulls of Bashan have encircled Me.
13 They gape at Me with their mouths,
Like a raging and roaring lion.
14 I am poured out like water,
And all My bones are out of joint;
My heart is like wax;
It has melted within Me.
15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
And My tongue clings to My jaws;
You have brought Me to the dust of death.
16 For dogs have surrounded Me;
The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me.
They pierced My hands and My feet;
17 I can count all My bones.
They look and stare at Me.
18 They divide My garments among them,
And for My clothing they cast lots.
19 But You, O LORD, do not be far from Me;
O My Strength, hasten to help Me!
20 Deliver Me from the sword,
My precious life from the power of the dog.
21 Save Me from the lion’s mouth
And from the horns of the wild oxen!
You have answered Me.
22 I will declare Your name to My brethren;
In the midst of the assembly I will praise You.
23 You who fear the LORD, praise Him!
All you descendants of Jacob, glorify Him,
And fear Him, all you offspring of Israel!
24 For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted;
Nor has He hidden His face from Him;
But when He cried to Him, He heard.
25 My praise shall be of You in the great assembly;
I will pay My vows before those who fear Him.
26 The poor shall eat and be satisfied;
Those who seek Him will praise the LORD.
Let your heart live forever!
27 All the ends of the world
Shall remember and turn to the LORD,
And all the families of the nations
Shall worship before You.
28 For the kingdom is the LORD’S,
And He rules over the nations.
29 All the prosperous of the earth
Shall eat and worship;
All those who go down to the dust
Shall bow before Him,
Even he who cannot keep himself alive.
30 A posterity shall serve Him.
It will be recounted of the Lord to the next generation,
31 They will come and declare His righteousness to a people who will be born,
That He has done this.

As the other Br Mike stated:

Rev. 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

All things come from from Him whom the Father has sent. "For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." The closer one gets to the Lord the more the testimony of Him abides in the one who draws close. David had this testimony.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2005/5/4 15:58Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Subject to...

Well this is still a very edifyng discussion if I may say so.

The 'subject to the prophets' is pretty telling, especially for the ones trying to just bring some self leveling here, are we indicting ourselves? ;-)

But to the Iron brothers, the Lord bless you both. You see at bottom the others here are not really fitting neatly into that catagorie of outright rejection, in effect you are preaching to the choir. Any venture backward's here to old posting's would bring about any number of heated Prophet-like 'pronouncements'. My own personal area of hostility, righteous indignation, what have you and including [i]off the rails[/i] to borrow from Bro. Roberts playbook, would be toward the whole of the WOF movement and it's sister cousins. But was it born of bitterness or sheer grief? Well in all honesty early on there was certainly that sense of being 'duped' and by and large it was that same utter frustration that perhaps you may well be trying to articulate here;

[i]'That they don't want to hear it!'[/i] That they are buying a lie, being misled...
And in the same way that could be said of many of those around us in this modern day world, they are just frankly not interested in the Gospel, at least not in what's true of the Gospel, any other version that doesn't ask for much seems to be making pretty good head way.

We seem to be in somewhat of a muddy middle here and the original question still holds.
"Credentials". Couldn't but help remember that our treasuers are in heaven, our crowns, our New Name, all that is of the greatest importance is eternal, we have but a few years in all this triffling, let 'em talk about us after we are dead if the Lord still tarries.

The other advantage we have here is a backwards look on things in scripture, after the fact. Even in history. Did you know that the Wesley's were rather despised while they lived? It wasn't till some time erroded away that became the 'great's' they are now considered. The same thing is not likely to come from here, not unless someone begins making times for Jesus' return or stating some 'new revelation' or something of that sort.
Just as well there is a speaking to the general here as well. From the claims of the Lord gathering up a mighty army that has been said for so long and so often that you would think they must have ran out of C-rations by now to every other fanciful thing under the sun, every year, practically every month it's another 'new thing' the Lord is doing and none of it comes to pass. That's not disbelief, that's exactely what was said in Jereimiah..."I never sent them."


I liked MC's analogy there and a policeman isn't really necessary among the peaceful but where the trouble is. So would imagine you guy's will continue to be challenged on these things from those here, whether they are from the Lord or not, '[i]test[/i] all things', and that includes all our own opinions and thoughts, it's because we care too much to let the cautions and dangers be ignored. Besides it could just be bad pizza 8-)


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/5/4 16:24Profile





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