| Re: For all you young prophets|
The book of James ch1:5 if any of you lack wisdom let hinm ask of God who gives to all generously..... put that with the fruit of wisdom---James3:17-18 The ulitmate purpose of the prophetic is to bring people to the Lord, in other words cause man to be at peace with thier God ---Jesus Christ. Learn to self judge that word against the fruits of wisdom, however in somethings its still a leap of faith. You don't always have to say "I have a Word from the Lord for you",,,,,"or Thus Saith The Lord".....learn the lesson of the farmer and be a wise sower, a master story teller like Jesus. Learn to give people free will and freedom of choice in thier acceptance of that word without incurring your condemnation upon rejection of that word or you. If you learn to master the bringing forth of God's Word in a wise manner you'll have fruitful results and you'll never have to compromise or be bitter from rejection knowing that you walked on solid scriptural footing and you'll be fully accepted of God and your own conscience your spirit bearing witness with God' Spirit. Blessing to you all. Bro. Daryl
| 2005/5/3 22:48||Profile|
:-D The heading at the top of the thread might have been a bit hasty. The questions came from a sincere heart though. I have no formal education beyond HS. No bible education. I just sit in the Lord's presence in hear his voice and the feel of His hand on my head as He talks to me out of His word.1Cor 14:37 is pretty self evident and the self governing of a prophet in the church is throughout the chapter. As to what a prophet goes through on the inside, I know that full well. I supose that people differ in style and delivery and in methods and sometimes creeds, but all in all they can still have loving fellowship in Christ Jesus. The emptiness you feel?Read Proverbs 1:23 and chew on it for awhile, there's a time of refreshing coming for you. For me? from the time I engage in a conversation I generally cover it in prayer as I also do for thoughs in the thread. Even kept you in prayer. I've learned to take all people by faith.I mean in the sense that one will say to me this or that, even if I don't believe what they say , I recieve them by faith(heb 11:1). It is however so difficult to know ones heart through the print, that's a lesson I'm learning on these forums, that I'm learning to take the time to be more explainative and give more definitions on things as I understand them. James say in many ways we offend many, to that all I can say is Lord have the mercy on me that I have had on others. Anyway enough said. Blessings. Bro. Daryl
| 2005/5/4 0:06||Profile|
| Re: question|
I have some questions to throw into the mix. Two different comments Jimm and Philo made caused me to notice a few unspoken assumptions I have aquired over the years regarding Ephesians 4:11.
Let me preface by observing that sometimes we discuss the fruit of the spirit as a series of different individual fruits (plural). I believe this defective idea is the result of our having believed that Christ-likeness does not flow from the fullness of His indwelling spirit but from "practicing" or imitating various traits through good intentions. We talk in terms of seeking the virtures of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, ect. instead of looking for the abiding with Jesus that grows ever closer and deeper.
Don't we sometimes make the same mistake with the gifts? Are we too preoccupied with labels? For instance, can't a believer with sufficient maturity, abiding in the vine, and under the shaping of the Potters hand, function in more then one gift throughout their lives? If so...why do we need to talk in terms of offices? Why not simply say that we seek to have Christ, His fullness thereof, realized in us? Having reached that single goal, won't all the rest become self-evident?
"It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
Is Epshesian 4:11-12 talking about offices like boxes that we are organized into? Or should we see the various equipping ministries as different rooms connected by doors that are opened by the Holy Spirit for saints to walk in and out in obedience? (I'm really asking...I'm not being rhetorical.)
Consider the following completey hypothetical scenario. A young Christian man, filled with the Spirit, brims with the fire of an evangelist to see people come to know Christ. As he grows in ministry his hunger to know more about the gospel deepens and soon he becomes an avid bible student. After awhile His knowledge and understanding of scripture reaches a level of maturity that He is able to equip other believers with scriptural wisdom---he is recognized as a teacher. Then, over the course of preparing for a sunday school class he teaches he spends much time in prayer and devotion to apprehend the Lord's wisdom on a subject. Eventually He is given a clarity and immediacy to things he never realized before. He feels the need to declare these truths with urgency. Others around him recognize him as a prophet, while others may even be offended by him. So the spirit gave one to be an evangelist, and then we see that the Spirit also gave him to be a teacher, and then gave him to be a prophet.
(Note that my example was not meant to imply rank or hierarchy to the gifts...I could've arranged any sequence for my hypothetical scenario.)
Can we say, given that we have all of Christ within, that more and more of Christ can come out depending on grace, maturity or season? Not that the individual should vainly hope to be a self-sufficient microcosm of the complete church...but that we may at times alternate between more than one role in order to complete one another. Can 2 or 3 gathered together on an island have the "5-fold" ministry? Can 2 or 3 become a complete church with the whole measure of Christ given to their fellowship?
Along these lines of questioning, let me admit that somewhere along the line I picked up the notion that spiritual giftings are simply natural talents and personality amplified by the Spirit. I've never heard it plainly said, but the unspoken contract seems to state that a cognitive person will inevitably be a teacher while the "type A personality" can qualify for the office of a prophet.
This reasoning seems unfounded when considering reluctant prophets such as Moses, Jeremiah or Hosea. Furthermore we know Paul as a great apostle, but was there also a more effective teacher or evangelist than him? Perhaps because we tend to rely too much on our natural strengths, I sense a silent agreement in the modern church that personality and natural gifting is the clue to calling and spirtual gifting. (Even musicans are sometimes labled "psalmists"!) Is this simple logic the source of our confidence in accepting someones' "office"?... the composition of the natural man affirms his role to play in the spiritual order of things? Do we unwittingly place people in boxes labeled "such and such office" largely according to their outer man?
I could share my opinion on all this but why not cut to the chase and admit my ignorance? We get so much more accomplished that way!:-)
| 2005/5/4 0:27||Profile|
Please explain Philologos. Thank you brother
He may be beyond explanation! :-?
but seriously, the word "office" appears some 46 times in the KJV. In every case it is unjustified. The translators of the KJV were anxious to preserve the status quo of Jacobean England. The Geneva translation was much less respectful to authority which was one of the reasons that James wanted a new translation. The most notorious example of obsession with office and rank is probably
Quote: where the word is simply 'served'. In Jacobean England every person was to have their station in the grand order of things and nothing was to be changed. Even midwives had 'office'!! (Ex 1:16) It is from the word ''office" that we get the adjective "official" and King James England was insistent that nothing was allowable that was not "official". He was a new king in a new country and determined to control religion as every other aspect of his new realm. It was a control device.
For they that have used [u]the office of a deacon[/u] well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus. (1Tim. 3:13, KJV)
This is why I often say that although the KJV is my version of choice, it is a hostile witness when we are trying to understand biblical teaching on church order and authority.
| 2005/5/4 3:57||Profile|
| Re: Thanks Ron|
...for clearing that up about the word "office" being actually service.
I cannot find anywhere in scipture, and I'm not award of anyplace in church history where the "prophet" had any office in church. Prophets do not appeal to the flesh. Their message is usually worship and glory of God, or what needs our attention in this hour as it ranks in importance to God.
Neither of these is particularly welcomed by religious folks. You can train someone in biblical exposition. They can be great orators. They can sing well and perform administrative function efficiently. But they can be elected by a vast majority. But that does not mean that they have "anointing". Anointing comes from only once source. It cannot be immitated. It scares the daylights out of the well educated and those in "control". Selah.
I started a thread on "apostolic credentials". Any takers?
| 2005/5/4 7:23|
Thank you guys for the loving admonishing.
You don't always have to say "I have a Word from the Lord for you",,,,,"or Thus Saith The Lord".....learn the lesson of the farmer and be a wise sower, a master story teller like Jesus. Learn to give people free will and freedom of choice in thier acceptance of that word without incurring your condemnation upon rejection of that word or you. If you learn to master the bringing forth of God's Word in a wise manner you'll have fruitful results and you'll never have to compromise or be bitter from rejection knowing that you walked on solid scriptural footing and you'll be fully accepted of God and your own conscience your spirit bearing witness with God' Spirit.
I sure wish it was that simple brother! I can only prophesy when I am in the Spirit, and once I am in the Spirit, there is no way for me to control the message, other than to just stop speaking, and sometimes when the unction is great even thats not possible. The Lord has expressed great sentiment and great anger and at these times I cannot control the message. Much of the time I only have a general idea what he is going to speak about and even when I know exactly what He wants to say, it is different when I say it
do you follow me? My natural man cannot express the range He has in the same way and so sometimes theres nothing for it but a the Lord will speak
. I think people who genuinely have the gift of tongues can relate; on one hand it is you control the speaking but on the other hand you are being given the utterance, but sometimes it just forces itself out with great unction.
I could butter up the message with a nice story from my head but I am convinced that is not why He gave me the gift. Admittedly I have not prophesied to very many people simply because I have not been told to do so, however those who are in close fellowship with me (Ironman- Farai included) have experienced and shared the experience with me. Farai also prophesies and on some occasions to give us an added assurance, the Lord will speak the same message through us at the same time.
I cannot prophesy about anything that I want to prophesy randomly. Even if I feel that a person needs a message of repentance with great anger the Lord is sometimes exceedingly soft and has broken people to the core with gentle words. Other times I go with a general awareness of the Lords anger and then, even I am taken by surprise when it is manifest. It is rare that I experience this and it usually comes after the same person/people has received repeated words of exhortation. I have even had to prophesy [i]against[/i] myself more than a few times and have been broken by my own prophesies. It is a strange sensation but is nothing like being possessed in that, you are still completely coherent and your consciousness is always intact. It is something I cannot describe adequately except to say it is like watching Someone speak through you.
I also receive prophetic visions and dreams and often I do not understand them and I have to wait for Him to explain it at His convenience.
It is definitely a Spiritual gift because I can tell you for a fact that before the 27th of August 2004 I could not prophesy, and then after that (that is a story for a whole different thread) I could, although I lost the anointing for a few months because of fear and a lack of faith and understanding. One of the first prophetic utterances I received was simply one word- light after that when my faith had grown I received another utterance explicitly and plainly appointing me into service. I reluctantly accepted after I tried to get out of it as I gave my reasons for not being able to fulfill the task ( I was too young and too scared). The Lord spoke softly and I could not resist Him and gave in.
After that I had to inform my parents that I was dropping out of Chemical Engineering college to be a minister (I did not tell them about the gift of prophesy) back home in Africa! I almost threw up just waiting for them to answer the phone. My Mom (the more spiritual of the two- who had received a vision concerning something like this about me from the Lord) sounded disappointed, but like me, she doesnt like confrontation and she just told me to speak to my Dad (whos military history is still in him) and he almost persuaded me that I was being too hasty. None of my old friends reacted badly at first, but I do not speak to any of them anymore, not even the spiritual ones.
I have changed a lot in the Lord, but, I am still just James
still looking for fellowship and a deeper relationship with God, just like all you other saints. I am not selling a prosperity message (thats not likely to make it in Africa anyway) or anything like that, but I am anxious to share the things the Lord has shown me with other believers. And on that note I will stop before this gets a little too personal
James Gabriel Gondai Dziya
| 2005/5/4 8:52||Profile|
How long you been saved?
| 2005/5/4 9:47||Profile|
| Re: Prophetic Credentials.....|
Thanks brother Daryl for the scripture ...
"[b]Turn you at my reproof:[/b] behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you" ... Prov.1:23
Reproof from our Lord is such a good thing ...
"As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: [b]be zealous therefore, and repent[/b] " ... Rev. 3:19
This statement from Os Guinnesse's book was a real strong "reproof" to repentance for me ... [b]"Never for one moment must we allow ourselves an excuse to ease up in pursuing God's call"[/b] ... I'll be meditating on this and Proverbs 1:23 for a while ...
And you have no idea how much your following statement means to me ...
"For me? from the time I engage in a conversation I generally cover it in prayer as I also do for thoughs in the thread. [b]Even kept you in prayer. [/b]
To know that you pray for me brother Daryl warms my spirit, thank you and amen, as i do also pray for you, SI and all it's members ... [b]"Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints"[/b] ... Eph.6:18
A blessed day to ALL my brothers and sisters in Christ ... [b]"We're ALL in this together"![/b] ...[b]whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.[/b] (1 Cor.12:26) ... Amen
| 2005/5/4 9:53||Profile|
How long you been saved?
That depends what you mean by saved. I was baptized in water when I was 7 years old, I was baptized in the Spirit 7 months ago. I have been actively and earnestly seeking for about two years.
There is nothing special about me all (Im not being modest). I cant claim to have been at the end of a 40 day fast when the word of the Lord came expressly to me, but while I was yet in my sins the Lord sought me and delivered me in mercy. It is all Him, I can take no credit at all.
James Gabriel Gondai Dziya
| 2005/5/4 9:59||Profile|
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS
so we should use service instead of office?
| 2005/5/4 10:16||Profile|