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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : A Question about "God granting repentance"

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rnieman
Member



Joined: 2008/10/24
Posts: 146


 Re:

The point of what God is saying in Acts 11:18 is not a focus on if repentance is a gift, but rather the point being made here when read in context is that God is granting the gift of Salvation(Eph 2:8) to the gentiles not just the jews. It would be a good idea to start in chapter 10 or earlier for we read in chapter 10: 44-45

44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.

Continue reading in chapter 11:1-18 and you will see the context carry over: Salvation not just for the Jewish nation, but also the gentiles. And from here on out the number of gentile believers begins to grow exponentially.
God chose to give us the ability to repent through the power of His Holy Spirit in the work of prevenient grace.

John 16:8
8“And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;

 2015/3/4 14:58Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

hey makro i think that verse you speak of definitely doesn't mean all are justified ,regardless ,where we know as a fact all have sinned ,only those who have been given the measure of faith are justified {paul used the term measure}

so the all in that verse is not speaking of the whole world but ALL the faithful ,,so that line of reasoning doesn't cut it ...

i think that artificial boyde wrote is way of the mark .
Pauls reason for writing the letter was not to convince the jews that god wants to save the gentiles ,but rather as paul wrote him self ,to convince the doubters of gods election and sovereignty . Thats way he address the issue of the doubtful ones who say ,who can resists gods will ,and why does god still find fault ,,if god elects in that way as he did with Jacob and esaw ,,we should let scripture interpret it self in many cases rather then inject a hypothetical reason like he has done ,which is obviously not being taught in the text its self
Also so he doesn't deal with any of the other scripture that literal teach that god grants faith and repentance to some and not others like this one for instance ;;;;;

john 6;64

;;;;But there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. 65And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father."


faith was not granted to some acording to Jesus .

we know the bible says jesus is the other and finisher of our faith ,and that god deals to each man a measure of faith.



but just look to history

> how many pagans died during the ministery of Jesus and the three years he preached repentance only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel .

its obvious many pagans died and went to hell wile Jesus refused to offer repentance to the majority of romans he called them dogs and said it wasn't right for the dogs to get the children s bread

and after that how long did it take before the gentiles started to get saved in the apostals ministry's ,after peter received the vision ,,god never granted repentance or faith before that time to but only a few who were more then like Jewish converts .....

It is very clear that god doesn't grant every one repentance

and then we hear about how god grants repentance to a muslim who is jail who has a vision of Christ and is converted ,with out really hearing the gospel ,as paul did his conversion ,,,he know god could do that to millions and millions of people but he doesn't grant that ..


I think people just get all sentimental with there pet doctrines and forget about the facts and gloss over scripture ..

but praise god we can all still love each other i know i would much rather be praising god with you all then on my own or in some liberal church ..


thank for your commendable attitudes and peaceful discussion

 2015/3/5 4:51Profile
makrothumia
Member



Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 613
Texas

 Re: Where does faith come from?

Dear brother,

I believe faith comes "from the thing heard" and "the thing heard from the word of Christ." I believe that Jesus Christ and the word of the gospel He proclaimed is the gift of God that enables all men to believe.

Paul's word to the Ephesians explains how he himself understood their being included in this wonderful grace of God in Christ. "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise"

The "hearing of faith" was foundational to Paul's preaching. The word of Christ, the hearing of the gospel is the power of God that enables men to believe. Those who mix with faith the good news that they hear will be saved.

The sin of unbelief is not a passive inability but an active, willful refusal to be persuaded by all the gracious evidence that God has provided to make Himself known.

The writer of Hebrews underscores "the sin of unbelief" as the reason those who died in the wilderness were condemned.
"For we have had the gospel preached to us just as they did, but the message they heard did not profit them because they did not mix it with the faith of those who believed."

I believe Jesus Christ is the grace of God given to all men and that the gospel of Jesus Christ is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes.

This is how I understand John 3:16 - that God loved the world in the very same way that Moses provided a means for those bitten in the wilderness to be saved from death by venom. Jesus Christ lifted up has been set forth as a propitiation for all who will look to His shed blood in faith.

We gain access into this grace through faith, we stand by faith, and this faith wherein we have access and stand is enabled by the very word of the gospel of Christ - the good news to every man.

All who by faith become partakers of Christ are sealed by the Holy Spirit through the hearing of faith. This is how they become "the elect."

makrothumia


_________________
Alan and Dina Martin

 2015/3/5 6:01Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

isay amen to that even tho i dont agree on all the fine details

 2015/3/5 6:39Profile









 Re: The Elect

You said

"All who by faith become partakers of Christ are sealed by the Holy Spirit through the hearing of faith. This is how they become "the elect.""

So you are saying that it is faith makes a person one of the elect?

I must disagree - the elect became the elect by what GOD has already done - not anyone's response to it.

By the way makrothumia do you know Don C?

 2015/3/5 7:12
makrothumia
Member



Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 613
Texas

 Re:

Yes brother Tuc, I do know brother Don and his family. They are wonderful saints.

Also, I understand the difference in how we understand "what God has done from the very beginning." Please know that although I see it differently, I recognize and respect the sincerety of those who understand it as you do.

If God had not chosen to save and to provide every facet necessary in the grace given in Christ Jesus, no one could believe. We do differ some, but I hope it is far less than some would make it.

Grace and peace be multiplied to you in Christ Jesus and may even in this we presere the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.


_________________
Alan and Dina Martin

 2015/3/5 7:49Profile









 All Grace is given

You said

"If God had not chosen to save and to provide every facet necessary in the grace given in Christ Jesus, no one could believe."

I agree with that 100%.

By the way I think I met you a few years back. You do not have a email listed in your profile but you can email me.

 2015/3/5 8:05
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5388
NC, USA

 Re:

"the elect became the elect by what GOD has already done - not anyone's response to it."

Not if God is electing a class of persons vs individual persons.


_________________
Todd

 2015/3/5 8:55Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

This is worth highlighting as I think it is a key fact....

Alan wrote:" The sin of unbelief is not a passive inability but an active, wilful refusal to be persuaded by all the gracious evidence that God has provided to make Himself known."

Another Key truth is...." Faith comes by hearing the word of Christ."

Faith is provided and 'gifted' in the word of the gospel. Those who CHOOSE to HEAR that word HAVE the faith that it contains to respond. Jesus said many times "Let those who have ears HEAR"! You can hear, but not really HEAR. To HEAR is to pay attention to the word of the gospel. Think about the parable of the sower. Those on the hard ground had the seed snatched away. They 'heard' it, but did not understand it.


_________________
Dave

 2015/3/5 9:26Profile
rnieman
Member



Joined: 2008/10/24
Posts: 146


 Re:

Well said TMK.

Here's some great resources on the theology of corporate election.

Russ

http://evangelicalarminians.org/?s=corporate+election

 2015/3/5 9:29Profile





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