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Oracio
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Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2039
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

It is argued that Jesus only rebuked the Pharisees. I don't believe there is any clear proof of that in the Word. We know for sure that John the Baptist did not limit his hard rebukes to the scribes and Pharisees, and Jesus' message was essentially the same as John's. Notice what the Word says about John's preaching to the multitudes, not just the scribes and Pharisees:

"Then he said to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him, "Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, and do not begin to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. 9 And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire." 10 So the people asked him, saying, "What shall we do then?" 11 He answered and said to them, "He who has two tunics, let him give to him who has none; and he who has food, let him do likewise." 12 Then tax collectors also came to be baptized, and said to him, "Teacher, what shall we do?" 13 And he said to them, "Collect no more than what is appointed for you." 14 Likewise the soldiers asked him, saying, "And what shall we do?" So he said to them, "Do not intimidate anyone or accuse falsely, and be content with your wages."-Luke 3:7-14

When sharing the gospel on the streets I've found that many times those who are the angriest at the preaching of the gospel are "religious" people who claim to be Christians but hate any mention of repentance. These are not people who dress like "religious" people or carry Bibles, they dress normally or casually. They go to church on a regular basis. But they have bought into a "gospel" that has told them they can take on a profession of faith without repentance. There are multitudes out there who fit that description. They start cursing you out for preaching the truth.


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Oracio

 2015/1/15 12:47Profile
Oracio
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Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2039
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Quote:
Like I said in my first response on this thread, the rich young ruler came running to Jesus (Mark 10:17) and not vice versa. And Jesus was using the 10 commandments he quoted as a rhetorical device (he was making the point that if you keep all the commandments you can inherit eternal life, which of course is not possible for a lifetime). He was not using them to shame or embarrass the guy. and again this was a one on one interaction.

The apostles generally went into the synagogues or where they were invited or they were defending themselves in front of the authorities.



TMK, in your 3rd point you only stated that Jesus did not "recite" the 10 Commandments when evangelizing. Taken at face value that seems to imply He did not quote them period. You did not explain anything there.

But even with that explanation I would still disagree. In the Sermon on the Mount and other places Christ did in fact recite the 10 Commandments and expounded on them bringing out the spiritual meaning of them in order to bring conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment.

Regarding using God's moral law to embarrass people, why should preaching on God's law to bring conviction of sin be seen or understood that way? I know there are examples of bad preachers out there but there are also many good examples? Why paint such a broad brush?


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Oracio

 2015/1/15 14:09Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5405
NC, USA

 Re:

I guess I do not consider Jesus' interaction with the rich young ruler to be evangelizing but I could see how some might consider it so.

I agree that there is nothing wrong with using the 10 commandments if done in a Christ-like spirit.


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Todd

 2015/1/15 14:23Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5405
NC, USA

 Re:

Regarding John the Baptist, the parallel passage in Mt 3 makes it clear that he was calling the scribes and pharisees a brood of vipers.


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Todd

 2015/1/15 14:28Profile
Oracio
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Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2039
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Quote:
Regarding John the Baptist, the parallel passage in Mt 3 makes it clear that he was calling the scribes and pharisees a brood of vipers.



The account in Matthew is much shorter than the one in Luke. In Luke we are told that right after John gave that rebuke and warning,

"the people asked him, saying, "What shall we do then?" 11 He answered and said to them, "He who has two tunics, let him give to him who has none; and he who has food, let him do likewise."

That indicates that the people in general got the sense that he was also addressing them. Concerning the passage in Luke this is what Matthew Henry writes, which I agree with:

"In Matthew he is said to have preached these same things to many of the Pharisees and Sadducees, that came to his baptism (Mt. 3:7-10); but here he is said to have spoken them to the multitude, that came forth to be baptized of him, v. 7. This was the purport of his preaching to all that came to him, and he did not alter it in compliment to the Pharisees and Sadducees, when they came, but dealt as plainly with them as with any other of his hearers. And as he did not flatter the great, so neither did he compliment the many, or make his court to them, but gave the same reproofs of sin and warnings of wrath to the multitude that he did to the Sadducees and Pharisees; for, if they had not the same faults, they had others as bad. Now observe here,

1. That the guilty corrupted race of mankind is become a generation of vipers; not only poisoned, but poisonous; hateful to God, hating one another. This magnifies the patience of God, in continuing the race of mankind upon the earth, and not destroying that nest of vipers. He did it once by water, and will again by fire.

2. This generation of vipers is fairly warned to flee from the wrath to come, which is certainly before them if they continue such; and their being a multitude will not be at all their security, for it will be neither reproach nor loss to God to cut them off. We are not only warned of this wrath, but are put into a way to escape it, if we look about us in time.

3. There is no way of fleeing from the wrath to come, but by repentance. They that submitted to the baptism of repentance thereby evidenced that they were warned to flee from the wrath to come and took the warning; and we by our baptism profess to have fled out of Sodom, for fear of what is coming upon it.

4. Those that profess repentance are highly concerned to live like penitents (v. 8): "Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance, else, notwithstanding your professions of repentance, you cannot escape the wrath to come." By the fruits of repentance it will be known whether it be sincere or no. By the change of our way must be evidenced the change of our mind.

5. If we be not really holy, both in heart and life, our profession of religion and relation to God and his church will stand us in no stead at all: Begin not now to frame excuses from this great duty of repentance, by saying within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father. What will it avail us to be the children of godly parents if we be not godly, to be within the pale of the Church if we be not brought into the bond of the covenant?

6. We have therefore no reason to depend upon our external privileges and professions of religion, because God has no need of us or of our services, but can effectually secure by his own honour and interest without us. If we were cut off and ruined, he could raise up to himself a church out of the most unlikely,—children to Abraham even out of stones.

7. The greater professions we make of repentance, and the greater assistances and encouragements are given us to repentance, the nearer and the sorer will our destruction be if we do not bring forth fruits meet for repentance. Now that the gospel begins to be preached, now that the kingdom of heaven is at hand, now that the axe is laid to the root of the tree, threatenings to the wicked and impenitent are now more terrible than before, as encouragements to the penitent are now more comfortable. "Now that you are upon your behaviour, look to yourselves."

8. Barren trees will be cast into the fire at length; it is the fittest place for them: Every tree that doth not bring forth fruit, good fruit, is hewn down, and cast into the fire. If it serve not for fruit, to the honour of God's grace, let it serve for fuel, to the honour of his justice."


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Oracio

 2015/1/15 15:43Profile
Lysa
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3400
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Heydave

Quote:
by Heydave
Matthew 12:38-39

Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.”

But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.


I was questioning your comment of the common 'people' being told they were shallow for only seeking Christ out for miracles. The verse you provided, imho, is totally out of context to that.

The reason I believe it's out of context is that your scripture reference is the pharisees seeking signs when they had the Scriptures and had studied them for literally decades and should have seen Him in them.

Quote:
Heydave wrote:
When Jesus healed people he generally did it in private and cautioned the recipient to not advertise it. It was out of compassion and not used to draw crowds. Yes we know they came because they heard about the miracles, but it seems to me He did not put on a show to advertise Himself like we see many healing crusades do. The apostles never put on a healing meeting. They preached the gospel and as God moved them they healed the sick.


1. Jesus did not 'generally' heal in private. He had to get a boat so many came to Him and preach from the boat, that's not private!
2. The Lord confirmed the Word they preached with signs following! (Mark 16.20 And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by accompanying signs.)

God bless,
Lisa

PS: We may just have to agree to disagree, brother! :)


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Lisa

 2015/1/15 16:55Profile
Heydave
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Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

Lisa said: PS: We may just have to agree to disagree, brother! :)

Yes maybe sister. I'm ok with that.

The context of the scripture is the Pharisees asked for a sign. Jesus' response was as I undertsand it to state a general rule. "A evil and sinful generation seeks after a sign". The fact He said generation seems to make it much wider than just the Pharisees. Just to go after signs and not the Lord Himself is shallow imo.

Do the signs (miracles) follow the word to confirm it or are they publicity that acts as an attraction to the flesh?


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Dave

 2015/1/15 18:40Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5405
NC, USA

 Re:

quote: "Do the signs (miracles) follow the word to confirm it or are they publicity that acts as an attraction to the flesh?"

In the case of Jesus, it seems to be because people needed to be healed, or exorcised, or fed, or rescussitated, or storms needed to be calmed.

I don't think we can blame the masses for wanting to follow Jesus after seeing some of the miracles he performed (or even hearing about them). Who wouldn't?


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Todd

 2015/1/15 18:51Profile
wijnand
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Joined: 2006/3/31
Posts: 112


 Re: 4 Things Jesus did not do when evangelizing

I am asking the question why Jesus and the apostles didn't do things always in the same way.

Jesus healed some people with 'mud', some with laying of hands, some with a word, some on distance, etc.
Jesus drove out demons with one sentence, sometimes asking there name (one time), etc.

I see the same things with the proclamation of the gospel. He shares the 'good news' in different ways, different 'methods' I don't like the word), etc.

The same did the apostles. If you look at the gospel the apostles preach in the book of Acts, you say everything is different every time.

I believe we can learn from this that we shouldn't do a "copy" of anyone, even ourselves. Do what the Lords ask you to do, say what He wants you to speak, and be free.

For me, I always was scared and depressed because I couldn't do what some other brothers did concerning evangelism. That was until God showed me that I am not those brothers, but I the Lord created me like I am. So now I try to just do His will. One of those things is streetpreaching in our town. I am not special, but I just share what the Lords gives me. Sometimes it is the law in which I am preaching Christ. Another time it's judgement. The other time it is Christ' love. Another time it is the need of the people. Mostly it is a mix. But I do it because I believe the Lord called me for this.

Just do what the Lord calls you to do and read scripture with a prayer to get understanding.


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Wijnand de Ridder

 2015/1/16 3:06Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5405
NC, USA

 Re:

amen wijnand.


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Todd

 2015/1/16 6:09Profile





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