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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : We have a backward gospel.

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TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

But Tuc---

is it not possible that you did not have victory because you were not obeying?

Nobody can be obedient for us. That is our part. It is too simple to just say "I am unable to obey therefore I will not try." We CAN obey and we ARE able. Otherwise we would not have been commanded to do so.

Of course no one obeys perfectly all the time. The issue is whether we are endeavoring to do so. I suspect there are great numbers of Christians who say they are endeavoing to obey but if they were under cross examination we would find that they could really care less about obeying. They like the IDEA of obeying without trying to do so. It is at this point that their conversion must be questioned.


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Todd

 2015/1/8 14:20Profile









 Re: Every true Christian knows that it is not his own efforts that saves him.

I am not certain that I agree with this statement. Look at all the people who believe in God and Christ but do not really experience His Victory. If this statement is true why did Paul take the time and effort to warn the Galatians of their self efforts? They where TRUE Christians.

I believed in God and Christ but thought it was up to me and my efforts to live the victorious Christian life.

 2015/1/8 13:34
rainydaygirl
Member



Joined: 2008/10/27
Posts: 742


 Re:

Every true Christian knows that it is not his own efforts that saves him. Every true Christian does not have "faith in himself" to live a victorious Christian life. And every true Christian knows that they must trust and obey Jesus Christ (I.e. be His disciple). But this does not happen automatically. We must really trust, and we must really obey.
---

yes i agree, God does require that we respond. He does not force us, there is choice. as you said we must obey and trust. rdg

 2015/1/8 10:43Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

Makruthumia wrote:

"It appears you are saying we must not attempt to have faith on our own, but instead must have faith in Christ's faith for us? Is that what you are saying

Is there any faith on our part? Do we receive? Is it necessary to have faith to receive Christ's faith? How do we have faith in Christ' faith for us?"

Exactly- this is where my confusion is coming from.


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Todd

 2015/1/8 10:41Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re: Examples Of Faith

It seems like you are using many words to state a very simple truth that every true Christian understands... Namely "trust the Lord."

Every true Christian knows that it is not his own efforts that saves him. Every true Christian does not have "faith in himself" to live a victorious Christian life. And every true Christian knows that they must trust and obey Jesus Christ (I.e. be His disciple). But this does not happen automatically. We must really trust, and we must really obey.


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Todd

 2015/1/8 10:39Profile
makrothumia
Member



Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 724
Texas

 Re: Examples Of Faith

If Paul had no confidence in his own faith, was it necessary for him to have faith in Christ's ability to grant faith to him?

It appears you are saying we must not attempt to have faith on our own, but instead must have faith in Christ's faith for us? Is that what you are saying

Is there any faith on our part? Do we receive? Is it necessary to have faith to receive Christ's faith? How do we have faith in Christ' faith for us?


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Alan and Dina Martin

 2015/1/8 10:35Profile









 Examples Of Faith

Look at these scriptural examples to understand what I am saying.

Phip. 1:6, “Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:”

1 Thes. 5:23-24, “And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. “Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.”

Eph. 1:3-5, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,”

Look at what Paul was saying here. His CONFIDENCE was not in his own ability to believe but in what God had already accomplished and would continue to accomplish.

You may make this verse personal to you by saying “I am confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in ME will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:”

Now Paul had NO confidence in his own efforts to produce the necessary faith. He knew that Jesus Christ is the ONLY true source of faith possible. He did not have any faith in his own faith!

The Holy Spirit was showing Paul what God in Christ had already accomplished through Christ’s life, death and resurrection. Then he saw and realized THE FAITHFULNESS OF GOD TOWARD HIM!!!

Now this Gospel contains and supplies us with all the necessary faith, love, obedience, surrender and repentance. Do not forget that salvation is IMPOSSIBLE by anything a person can do. Salvation is the work of God.

Mark 10:26-27, “And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved? And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.”

It was God in Christ who has reconciled us to Him, made us one with Him, justified us, made us holy, sanctified us, forgiven all of our sins, crucified us with Him, and then raised us from the dead in Him. He has given us HIS divine nature and HE is our LIFE. He has made us a NEW CREATION.

Heb. 8:12, “For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.”

Heb. 10:16-18, “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.”

Christ, the LAST ADAM came to rescue us from sin and totally undo ALL the consequences of what the 1st Adam did.

God in Christ has now made us ONE with Him and we have been fully justified and born again BY CHRIST"S RESURRECTION from the dead. NOT by our OWN EFFORTS!!

Romans 4:3-5, "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

Gal, 3:8, “And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.”

Now look at this part closely - GOD JUSTIFIETH THE UNGODLY AND THE HEATHENS!

Are you shocked and surprised that God justifies the ungodly and the heathens? It is by the Cross that God has saved wicked men and received to Himself the vilest of the sinners. See how this Scripture plainly states it. God makes those just who are unjust, forgives those who deserve to be punished, and favors those who deserve no favor.

God did all this in Christ BEFORE you where even born, before you could repent and before you could believe. He did this without your permission or consent. You had NO PART in what God did in Christ.

Have you ever tried to Love and Obey God and totally failed? Look at and examine all you failures that you have made.

Have you been defeated over and over again? Are you hopeless? Have you found it impossible to ever Love and Obey God correctly?

I hope that when you look back on all your defeats and failures that you now know the reason why you failed. It was that you were trusting in your own abilities to believe. Your faith was in your faith and your confidence was in your efforts.

Do you now realize the fact that you have been on the throne attempting to use your own will power and desires to get archive freedom but self can never dethrone self? Self can NEVER dethrone self - IT IS IMPOSSIBLE.

If you do not realize this fact you will continue to keep trying and failing over and over again.

Now you have a choice to make to make if you want to enjoy His VICTORY and be an active participant in what God has already accomplished for you in Christ. Will you put your confidence in HIS FAITHFULNESS TOWARD YOU or in your faithfulness toward Him?

 2015/1/8 7:34
drifter
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 1025
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him." John 6:44

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL men unto me." John 12:32

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9

ALL :the whole, entire, total amount, quantity, or extent of
:every member or part of :the whole number or sum of.- Merriam Webster's Dictionary


_________________
Nigel Holland

 2015/1/7 18:27Profile
yuehan
Member



Joined: 2011/6/15
Posts: 562


 Re: It all depends on Christ's faithfulness to you.

I found these old SermonIndex threads which I thought was illuminating on the topic of faith:

(discussion on Galatians 2:20)
https://img.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic_pdf.php?topic_id=14639&forum=36

Word Study: The Faith of God (or Christ)
https://img.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic_pdf.php?topic_id=4250&forum=36

Philologos summarizes it well - "Faith and repentance are only possible because God enables but each requires our personal engagement."


 2015/1/7 16:49Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re: It all depends on Christ's faithfulness to you.

Hi Tuc-

You are expressing yourself fine-- however what you arr expressing seems very questionable.

All throughout scripture we are commanded to have faith and those with faith are commended. This does not square with what you are saying.


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Todd

 2015/1/7 16:04Profile





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