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Your understanding is spot on. You said,
"Moderns have been so charmed by affluence, relativism that we have lost the ability to discern - or maybe they never had the ability - who is God's and who is not".
When it comes to discernment as you mentioned, one of the dangers in turning a blind eye to sin in the camp is that the church runs the risk of being turned over to a spirit of delusion and a reprobate mind.
I truly believe the reason many professing Christians embrace the ability to not only divorce but remarry as well, whether one believes there are scriptural grounds or not, is due in part to the wide acceptance amongst the modern church. I have witnessed and heard people apply the exception clauses in cases where the real reason they were divorcing was because they did not love their mate any longer. They have also used excuses of saying they have grown apart, did not have anything in common. A current friend of my wife who has left her husband and children and carrying on with an old boyfriend has come up with every excuse under the sun to justify her infidelity and yet applies the exception clause as to a reason to divorce???
As a result of not holding up the biblical view of covenant marriage, divorce has been widely accepted and excused for really any reason. To compound this sin, the delusion is the distorted view and acceptance of same sex marriage now being embraced by active professing Christians.
Aside from the covenant marriage issue, what about looking at the excuses the modern church has when it comes to not honoring all the commandments of God?
1)The church allows for other gods apart from the One true God via Interfaith/Ecumenicalism. We are told not to judge. Even unregenerates are getting fed up with Islam being shoved down the worlds throat at every turn.
2)Many have created/fashioned a god in their own mind that fits their own lifestyle and beliefs. Many say, " I believe..." with no scriptural backing.
3)As for taking the Name of the Lord in vain. Many use Gods name carelessly or words that resemble Gods name. It has been discussed here before. Some things that come to mind are things like (Lord please forgive me) gosh darn it, oh my gosh, jeepers creepers, etc. We had a longer list on SI some time ago.
4)While I realize there are not a lot of churches I do not feel comfortable stepping in to. Many excuse any fellowship whatsoever with other believers. Many work jobs on Sunday.
5)What about honoring parents? I am amazed at those who go to church, are involved in ministry, will bend over backwards to help strangers, yet neglect honoring their parents.
These are just 5 of the commandments and only some of the things Christians excuse, so I trust you get the point.
You also mentioned why would we listen to the moderns? This is a great point and the bible says that If they speak not according to the word of God there is NO light in them. Paul talks about not withholding the WHOLE counsel of God but warned the people day and night with tears.
If we refuse to call sin, sin, and think we can turn the other way thinking that it is none of our business do we really love the brethren? What is the difference walking by a burning home with people sleeping inside and not doing everything in our power to wake them up and telling them to flee for their lives?
Did the sin of Achan affect only Achan or ALL of Israel? How did Joshua realize their was sin in the camp? because 36 men lost their lives and the other 2,964 were put to flight by the men of Ai and Joshua rent his clothes and fell to the ground and inquired of the Lord because he DISCERNED something was amiss.
Like you said sister, we are not renting our clothes and falling to the ground and we have been overrun by a spirit of delusion because we have refused to be faithful in the little that has been entrusted to us.
Again your statement about music could not be more correct and you also speak the truth about the musicians because I also know for a fact that the musicians that play in many of the big mega churches are hired professional musicians and not Christians at all. If that is not the blind leading the blind.
The conservative church I have been attending has of late introduced electronic drums in two recent services. Since being delivered from a demonic spirit of rock & roll I am very sensitive to it's presence and I believe that the spirit's foundation and influence is that of percussion. I know this makes drummers (I used to play them) furious, but in most cases within any church or worship service the drum is the predominate instrument.
If you look at the platform in a church, what is the one colorful instrument elevated in the center of the stage? I will go out on a limb, as this subject is a HOT one, and say I also believe that Lucifer is the god of percussion and the drum is his instrument of choice.
As a result, I cannot worship God when drums are present no more than I could stand naked on a busy street corner.
I agree that the church is going with the flow of the world and run no different than a business void of the Spirit of God.
Many of us are accused of being narrow minded, but in all honesty, I like narrow, as long as it is based on the word of God and not ourselves.
Can I close with this? When I was lost and was continually being exposed to the word of God in print, in deed, and in my conscience, it made me furious. I thought and said, How dare you judge me! Who do you think you are?!
On the outside, if one looked at me, they would conclude, He's not getting it, he cannot see the truth. However this could not be farther from the truth.
Inside, in my spirit, I KNEW, what I was reading, what I was seeing, and what I was sensing was TRUE. Unfortunately, I continued to kick against the pricks for many years, fighting, arguing, and excusing my beliefs, my ways. Yet I knew that I knew, that I knew, if I would have died in that state, I was going to hell. I hate gambling and like a fool I continued to gamble with my soul knowing full well if I stood before Him, I would be without excuse.
I know there are some who are having the same struggles I had, there is a battle going on within. While I would say God is patient, long suffering, gracious, and merciful I regret that I took Him for granted and tomorrow was not a guarantee.
As it was done unto me, I look to do unto others and that is this:
2 Timothy 2:24-26 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, (25) In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; (26) And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
So for those who may take many of the admonishments, corrections, and warnings posted here on SI as judging or condemning, I know for me, this is not the case at all and I know I am not alone.
| 2014/12/17 14:13||Profile|
| Re: |
Savannah: How many tears have you shed for these people?
The problem with all of these people is the complete absence of eternity and the Judgement Seat. Not saying that our motivation for living a radical sold out life comes out of fear. But if all of us had eternity on our eye balls consistently , would any of us be doing what we are doing right now? But we have to remember that God judges the heart not us.
I agree with lack of eternity samped in the eyes. It is something that I want to be stamped all the time in my eyes and look into things with different perception.
But regarding shedding tears I am not in agreement. These are not just people who are just a normal church goers but they act as spiritual leaders who leads many unsuspecting weaker brothers and sisters. Suppose you know a pedophile leading some children, would you not immediately try warning those children? Or will you keep shedding tears for the Pedo that he should repent?
There is nothing wrong in pointing out the mistakes of so called Christian leaders so that we can warn those unsuspecting believers who are deceived by their teachings.
| 2014/12/18 6:05||Profile|
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Brother, you know you will be called legalistic and worse? Glad you do not care....
Inside, in my spirit, I KNEW, what I was reading, what I was seeing, and what I was sensing was TRUE. Unfortunately, I continued to kick against the pricks for many years, fighting, arguing, and excusing my beliefs, my ways. Yet I knew that I knew, that I knew,
For a long time I have suspected this is why there is so much opposition to TRUTH. My experience at the Crises Pregnancy Center confirmed this as well. I did not tell my clients anything they did not know. This reality brings up another troubling question: why evangelize when people already know but refuse to yield? My conclusion to this question is that God want us to be a observer of his work in the lives of people.
Would love to hear your testimony of how God reached you and the subsequent yielding...You said a LOT in this post. Your testimony is gratifying - you are not alone.
| 2014/12/19 12:17||Profile|
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How many others would be willing to openly admit their past sins? So many can recognize the sins of others, but not see their own or think their sins are not as bad as another, a very dangerous placed to be. I am not condoning divorce, I am not condoning marriage, and yes, many go on sinning because they are drawn into the world and the lust for worldly possessions. Most pastors I know, have stepped down from their Ministries after divorce. I wonder if Jesus approached Hal, if he would tell him the same thing he told the woman at the well, or would he condemn him on the internet in front of the world? It's amazing how sinners can condemn sinners, personally I want a non sinner condemning me, that would be Jesus Christ.
| 2014/12/20 9:46||Profile|
East TN (for now)
| Re: |
How many others would be willing to openly admit their past sins?
Not many, brother, not many.
Also, I have heard, "they are making divorce the 2nd unforgivable sin." And totally believe it.
| 2014/12/20 12:54||Profile|
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RE: ///.... If we cannot have mercy on those have remarried and use the law to measure then it will be measured back to us in other areas just the same. It is not about legal obeying of the law but a relationship with Jesus Christ through His precious blood that will preserve us.
God will call some remarried couples to separate. But what God has made clean let no man call unclean.///
Very Well said.
I find it interesting that those whom refuse to give any mercy, no matter the situation when it comes to remarriage always speak of covenant and vow , but Jesus defined marriage as 'twain becoming one flesh.' and He does not stop there but aludes to a Spirtual reality that with in the realm of the heart any one that you have lusted about you have to some extent become one flesh with them.
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
| 2015/1/1 17:20||Profile|
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I am deeply convinced of the Word that God hates divorce' and that remarriage outside of divorce due to adulltery is sin. I am also convinced by His Word that God forgives that sin in true repentance.
Experience shows us that the church in America has destroyed its witness because it embraces divorce and remarriage. It loves, in fact, what God hates. In our churches, divorce occurs with no restoration or forgiveness and remarriage occurs with no correction as to when it is improper. We cry "mercy" and rub across our lips to keep from saying "truth". We smile, support and endorse what God has condemned.
It is not that mercy and forgiveness are unavailable to the divorced and remarried. It is that no one thinks repentance is necessary.
| 2015/1/1 17:49||Profile|
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11
| Re: |
We are closing this thread due to the fact that the subject has been discussed extensively and all points have been made.
This thread is now locked.
SI Moderator - Greg
| 2015/1/2 1:25||Profile|