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budgie
Member



Joined: 2011/2/25
Posts: 266


 Re:to staff re the timing

Thanks staff for your explanation, it sounds good but the timing of the 2 witnesses just does not fit in the first 3 1/2 years in scripture
As I said before you have already made up there timing but have not taken into account of their placement in Revelations, they are clearly in the last half as they are between the 6th and 7th Trumpet , you are stating that the timeframe between the 6th and 7th Trumpet has to be 3 1/2 years and that all of the Tribulation and all of the Antichrist period fits into this 6th and 7th timing.
It just does not fit
The battle of Armageddon clearly takes place at the 7th trumpet and Jesus tramples His wrath at this time.
Scripture clearly shows that the Holy City is being trampled by the Gentiles at the same time the 2 witnesses are causing plagues etc, the same time as the Beast and False Prophet
The two witnesses are standing before the god of earth not before the God Of Heaven
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the god of the earth.
Satan and the Beast think and convince others that they are the god of the earth
this is the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Paul stated clearly that this person must be revealed before Jesus comes and gathers us to himself and Jesus destroys this beast when He comes to gather us.

Look at your timing and make sure it fits scripturally

 2014/10/26 16:48Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1419


 Re:

Hi Budgie
What happens(bad things) after the two witnesses are taken to heaven?In your timeline I am unclear of this
Thanks Staff

 2014/10/26 17:10Profile
budgie
Member



Joined: 2011/2/25
Posts: 266


 Re: to staff member

not sure what you mean by bad things, the 2 witnesses certainly bring much torment to those around Jerusalem and surrounding areas on the earth,I believe in the timeline that Revelations shows in regards to the 2 witnesses which is as follows

Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

The above certainly looks like the events that are spoken of throughout Revelations

Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

It is amazing how quickly people can start celebrating after 3 1/2 years of torment, they even buy gifts and send them to others

Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

It is very clear that the 7th Trumpet is next after the 2 witnesses arise

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

The above certainly looks like other areas in Revelations where Christ comes for the battle of Armageddon and tramples His wrath, it is interesting that God is rewarding His servants, saints and prophets just before His wrath on earth is about to come
Looks just like Noah and Lot, Noah and Lot literally saw the Judgement of God at the time of their deliverance

Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

 2014/10/26 18:44Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1419


 Re:

Hi Budgie
Sorry what I mean is after the two witnesses rise but before the sun is darkened.
What happens bowls trumpets etc?
Thanks Staff

 2014/10/26 19:13Profile
budgie
Member



Joined: 2011/2/25
Posts: 266


 Re: to staff

now I know what you are saying.
I can only answer this with what is shown in scripture
Firstly I must say that every prophetic books follow the similar pattern by God, they tend to overlap and be expanded upon as God describes the same event in a deeper way and from a different angle and He appears to expand a lot more on the final events.
A good example of this is all of the visions and interpretations in Daniel they show a different picture but speaking about the similar events.
You can overlap or overlay Daniel and get an amazing picture of that last period of time of the Antichrist and the Coming of Christ to earth to establish His Kingdom.
From the studies I have done in Revelations it follows the same pattern you will find some profound things that God is doing and is happening between the 6th and 7th seals trumpets and bowls, Jesus even states he is coming as a thief between the 6th and 7th bowl and He wants us to be clothed in Him

 2014/10/26 19:25Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1419


 Re:

Hi Budgie
I think that doesnt answer my question in a way I understand,Does anything happen after the 2 witnesses rise?
Yours Staff

 2014/10/26 20:12Profile
budgie
Member



Joined: 2011/2/25
Posts: 266


 Re: to staff

As to your question of what happens between the 2 witnesses rising and the sun being darkened scripture is not clear as to specifically days or months, all we know is that the Tribulation has ended, the Beast has no longer any power granted by God, he uses demons to gather the armies.
Daniel is very specific about a 75 day period.

We know in Joel that the signs are in the Heavens when they gather at Jehoshafat,
We also read the same image in Revelations at the 6th seal also near the time where the armies are gathering to Jerusalem
we also see the link with the Euphrates river and the armies in the 6th trumpet and 6th bowl

Rev_9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

Rev_16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

But as to how many days exactly between the end of the Tribulation and the signs in the skies we are not told, we are only told the order of the events.

Joel and Isaiah are certainly an interesting read and certainly presents some period of days between the end of the Trib and the armies gathering around Jerusalem

It takes time for armies to gather, to march and to assemble, certainly more than a few days

We know that there is at least 3 1/2 days after the Tribulation and after the 2 witnesses are killed because people are celebrating and sending gifts to one another and this is just before the 7th Trumpet and just before the armies gather around Jerusalem.

I hope this answers your question in a scriptural manner, not my thoughts but scripture speaking

 2014/10/26 20:14Profile
budgie
Member



Joined: 2011/2/25
Posts: 266


 Re: to staff

All I can suggest to do is to do as I am at present, I have a large A1 page and am compiling all of the events in Joel, Isaiah and Revelations that are around that period of time where the armies are starting to cross the Euphrates and are heading to Jerusalem for the battle and valley of decision where God judges

I am surprised at how much there is but again no exact amount of days

What we are told is that God puts into the hearts of the 10 kings to destroy the city that has ridden on the back of the beast and has profited in a massive way, this happens at the time when they are heading to Jerusalem and just before the Wrath of God.

It is very much like Mecca and Meddina today profiting on the back of Islam IS, all other countries are in a Mess but Mecca and Medina are prospering and have a peace, even the Koran has a prophecy that the Mahdi destroys Mecca on the way to Jerusalem for the battle very much like the 10 kings that destroy the great city in the desert by the seas

 2014/10/26 20:32Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1419


 Re:

Hi Budgie
Jesus says when you see the abomination of desolation flee to the hills.The abomination is in the middle of the 70th week.Why do the two witnesses not obey Jesus as they stay in Jerusalem?
The antichrist had complete dominion in the 2nd part of the week but how could this be if the two witnesses are on earth for they had powers that would compromise the antichrist rule.
If the people who dwell on the earth mourn the colapse of Babylon at the end of the 2nd half how do they celebrate the death of the witnesses if thats also at the end of the 2nd 1260 days?Are they mourning or celebrating?
Elijah called down fire from heaven and laughed at the prophets of Baal.How can he succeed if the False Prophet is calling down fire at the same time?
It makes sense to me that the witnesses preach during peace time and have the full playing field to themselves.It also marrys up well with Noah and Lot both were times of peace with normal life going on.
your staff

 2014/10/26 21:09Profile
budgie
Member



Joined: 2011/2/25
Posts: 266


 Re: to staff

Jesus was speaking to people as individuals as well as a whole in Jerusalem, yes they do flee in the middle of the 7 years as Jesus said, we are not told who these 2 witnesses are, are they literally Elijah or Moses or someone else we do not know, but whoever they are they both know the mission that God has for them and it has been prophecied that they will be there and be killed between the 6th and 7th Trumpet just prior to the 7th trumpet and the gathering of armies to Jerusalem.
If God commanded you to do something would you do it
No they don't compromise the rule of the Antichrist, they are doing the exact same thing that Moses and Aaron did with Pharoah and the magicians.
The 2 witnesses torment the unbelievers while the Beast and the unbelievers torment the believers, this is why the unbelievers hate the 2 witnesses so much
Again the death of the 2 witnesses takes place just prior to the destruction of the whore city
Look at what it says in Revelations

Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

They were rejoicing at the time of death for 3 1/2 days only then the 2 witnesses arose then there was a small amount of judgement in Jerusalem

Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

There are a remnant in Jerusalem that gave Glory to God

sometime after this is when the nations get angry for the wrath of God is come

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

The battle is between the God of heaven and the God of earth, this battle can go on the same as moses and Pharoah

look at what the 2 witnesses do

Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

sounds powerful to me, the beast cannot overcome them until Gods appointed time.

You are still trying to make sense but ignoring the fact of where scripture has so clearly placed the 2 witnesses between 6th and 7th Trumpet.

Stop trying to fit things into your theory and allow yourself to align with Gods prophecy.

Lot and Noah both saw the Judgement of God come on the earth when they were delivered.
Noah and lot were not delivered and then 7 years later came the judgement

They were delivered and judgement came all around the same time, lots wife looked back as they were delivered and she was judged

First Deliverance then Judgement all at the same period of time

 2014/10/26 22:02Profile





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